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 Post subject: Tune-bot
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:01 pm
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Location: St. Louis
Saw this in a newer issue of DRUM magazine. Thoughts?

http://www.tune-bot.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Tune-bot
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:51 am 
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Location: Wisconsin, USA
Hey, Gunnar. The Tune-bot is a tuner with a built in microphone, mounted on a stick. The stick is useful, because it frees up a hand to work on the drum.

I have been using a tuner for years, as a check. Once I have a drum in tune to itself, I then use a tuner to discover pitch, and then adjust if need be. Trying to tune a drum to itself using a tuner is a losing proposition. There are too many harmonics and overtones in a drum, which will lead a tuner astray.

If you are trying to set a drum up, the Tune-bot is probably the long and hard route. If you are ascertaining a note from a tuned drum, the Tune-bot has some interesting features, and is probably the easiest tuner on the market to use for drums. Not worth it to me to replace my hand-held item, but if I had no tuner at all, I'd purchase one. A tuner is another reference tool.


I have been watching a group of guys over at DFO who enthusiastically bought the Tune-bot as soon as it was announced. Disappointment set in fairly rapidly:

http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/top ... ge__st__20

http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/top ... ntry703348

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 Post subject: Re: Tune-bot
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:03 am 
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Hey Gunnar,

In a nutshell, a good product that is poorly explained.

Personally, I generally use four toms, and tune then to specific pitches, and I use a drum dial and a tuner to get there.

The drum dial is a quick way to get to a starting deflection known to be very close to the target tension and resulting frequency, and in tune with itself. The tuner can be either a handheld guitar tuner or, in the studio, a tuner in the recording software.

The technical weakness there is that the drum dial measures surface deflection and assumes that, with all else equal, this will produce equal tension, hence equal frequency. If a drumhead is (i) not the same thickness as the reference head, (ii) itself of consistent thickness, or, (iii) has a surface depression of any kind, the relationship of the drum dial reading to the frequency changes.

This device directly measures frequency and does not require the assumption of ‘all else equal’.

I nearly always use the same (G1 clear) heads, and the same tunings, so this device does not offer me much that can not be done with equipment I already own. If I used a variety of different heads, and/or needed to use a variety of tuning, I would give one a try.

All that said, I think the demonstration video was poorly done. I think the presenter understood (i) the underlying principles of tuning, and, (ii) how the device worked very well, but was too close to it to explain it to potential users. He needed to be able to define a technical objective, and then articulate how this device accomplished that objective.

The explanation fell short, even thought I suspect that the device does the job well (assuming the microphone pick-up is adequately focused to the capture only desired inputs).

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Cliff

River City Trio

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 Post subject: Re: Tune-bot
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Thanks much for the input guys. As expected, some really good observations. Yeah, doesn't really seem like a big hit over at DFO either! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Tune-bot
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:11 am 
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Bought one, read the posts and had the same problems as everyone else with a wide variation between taps with the stick. So I watched the video a second time and read the instructions the first time :) and worked great.

Great addition to a drum dial. Drum dial the heads close and then tune bot final. I could not get my 8 to sound the way I wanted but with the tune bot and 10 min. It was done. Did the 10 and 12 and the 14 top head. Will finish up this week on my days off.

I was very surprise how close i was with the drum dial and my ear. A lot of people say it is a waste of time to use these things but even though I was close and the kit sounded good I was surprised what an 1/8 or 1/4 turn could do. The tune bot allows you to find the rod(s) that need that slight adjustment very quickly. It works very well IMHO.

I think Cliff was right on the money with the video. It was not very well done but had all the info. It was not explained clearly on the first run through. There was a lot of jumping around from topic to topic. If you read the instructions and follow them it works well. If you have a problem watch the video and find the fix for the problem.

Take care guys


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 Post subject: Re: Tune-bot
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:30 am 
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Hi, Sam, great to hear from you. How's it been going. Still tuning your drums, I see.

Great post. As good as my ears are (once were), tuning is so much easier with objective feedback. I think I can tune a guitar quickly and easily by ear, but drums are more difficult. Tuning maintenance features, from the spring loaded clips of Link era to the modern Tunesafe stuff, have added a new dimension of difficulty by obscuring the feel.

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 Post subject: Re: Tune-bot
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:45 am 
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Hi Sam,

Good to see you! ;)

Thanks for checking one out and confirming what I suspected to be the situation. To get right to the point, I think that there is one level of hearing required to discern that a drum is not tuned right, and another level required to get it right, and many of us are between the two.

In retrospect, I think of one guy on the museum who was vehemently opposed to the idea of any sort of tuning aids, with an argument that seemed based more on pride than on logic. The same guy would later acquire an SQ2 kit and eventually complain publicly of tuning problems with the SQ2’s.

With (i) this person being an acknowledged collector of Link era drums, and, (ii) with Link era drums widely acknowledged to be more harmonically dampened, either (a) by design intent, or (b) when compared with later design intent to the contrary, I am, in retrospect, not surprised that one could deny the usefulness of any sort of tuning aid, and shortly thereafter, find SQ2’s un-tunable.

A drum out of tune with itself will be more discernible in the harmonics than in the fundamental pitch. A drum more prone to project the fundamental (while minimizing harmonics) will tend to minimize the effect of being out of tune with itself, due to the lesser projection of the harmonics in which the out of tune condition is more evident.

On the other hand, SQ2’s, with the design intent of maximizing projection of harmonics from both the shell and from the un-damped outer edges of the head are more likely to bring poor tuning to the forefront.

I feel pretty comfortable with saying that before the days of any ‘tuning aids’, the objective was to get a ‘good sound’ from my kit, and that I was competent at doing so.

I am equally comfortable with the statement that as my tuning objectives have become more specific, and more crystallized in my mind, that a drum dial and a pitch tuner have helped me to become both better and quicker at tuning a kit, and with rationalizing intervals in kits with more pieces.

To my way of thinking, any argument that nothing could be better than what I am currently doing is pretty much the same as putting a stake in the ground, declaring that I have reached the end of the road, and will grow no more.

Sam, I am glad you were able to get your 8” tuned to your satisfaction.

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Cliff

River City Trio

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 Post subject: Re: Tune-bot
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:01 pm 
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That all makes sense, Cliff, particularly when using those shells in conjunction with Pinstripes. :o

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Gregory


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 Post subject: Re: Tune-bot
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Gregory wrote:
That all makes sense, Cliff, particularly when using those shells in conjunction with Pinstripes. :o


Yup. That's another way to solve a tuning problem. :?

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?


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 Post subject: Re: Tune-bot
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:37 am 
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Location: Troon, Scotland, Uk
I'd love to try one of these before I stick my hand in my pocket. I grudged the £70 for the drum dial but to now pay a further £100 for the Tunebot.......Hmm. I think they look like a great tool and I'm sure if used correctly it would be very handy.

I quite liked pinstripes on my SQ2 shells! I will say now having played them with clear emperors on there is no comparision :oops:

Pinstripes have a really bad reputation out there.

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