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WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
http://ondrums.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=485		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Gregory [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
Watching these two guys play I came away with some thoughts, and I wonder what you make of this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... vd1A#at=29
Author:  cliff [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
Do I have to make something out of it?

Is it something already?

Dunno.

Not the style of drum solo(s) I enjoy very much. Never have understood the notion that a drum solo needed to be a blazing flash of technical expertise, rather than the drummer’s opportunity to say something on his own.

Imagine group of people around a campfire, each taking a turn telling a story, and having one guy recite the dictionary at a highly respectable velocity.

Skillful? Probably, and surely something I could not do.

Communicative and entertaining? Dunno. :?
Author:  Gregory [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
One good set of responses. I've got in mind some other categories as well:

Drum sound
Persona
Intention
Musical vocabulary
Chronological development
Author:  phatsolid [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
These guys come from such different musical worlds. This video is Neal Peart trying to play in Buddy's world and it sounds somewhat awkward... what I would expect. Peart is the weakest swinging drummer on those "Burning with Buddy" cds. He came of age in the 70's rock era and he developed a certain style using a huge drum set and many sound sources. Buddy was a vaudeville entertainer from the age of 5 years old and someone who I believe saw himself as an "entertainer" as a much as a "musician". And he could swing his ass off with just a trash can lid and a coffee can!

Buddy had great chops, a great band, and I love his concept. But his solos became pretty "canned", and they were all very similar after awhile. I like his nice open drum sound and the flow of his fast singles, especially at the end, are so smooth and infectious!

Peart seems like he's throwing a lot of triplets around the drums, looking for his other 10 toms to hit! Jazz is just not something a drummer can pull off "once every 10 years." It's a very specific feel that takes years to develop and Peart just hasn't played it enough to make it sound or feel that good.

Just my 2 cents...

- D.
Author:  cliff [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
Dave,

I agree with much of your comments.

In my opinion, Buddy's real forté, aside from technical strength, is marketing and organization. He knew how to make the drummer a frontman, a show, how to wrap the band around him, and how to promote it as 'Buddy and his sidemen'.

Nothing wrong with that at all, and while I respect him highly, it is his brand of showmanship that evolved into what Peart picked up on and ran with - flash, dazzle, technique, adding a carnival kit.

Very much agree that Peart is out of his element in a swing/jazz setting, but I could not do his stuff with any conviction either.
Author:  Gregory [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
Interesting assessments, and I agree on the whole.

Does one or the other appear to be having more fun? I suppose that's answered by the "entertainer" assessment, but why doesn't Peart even try? Both of their personalities are unappealing, but Buddy at least seems to make more of an effort toward communicating something, whereas the dullness of Peart's performance seems to originate in his heart.

I suppose one way to look at this might be as the canning (to use David's word) of the culture. Peart's performance is less animated and the drum sound is less alive. I agree that the performances are both self-indulgent, but the visual and aural shifts between Rich and Peart is revealing, perhaps, of the cultural shift that has taken place in the intervening years. While Buddy Rich is an extraordinarily talented and disciplined punk with a chip on his shoulders but still making an effort to entertain, Neal Peart is an extraordinarily talented narcissist who allows the audience to marvel at him. Couldn't get much duller, even though, as I agree with Cliff, I can't approach his chops. Stardom ain't what it used to be.
Author:  phatsolid [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
Gregory wrote:
Does one or the other appear to be having more fun? I suppose that's answered by the "entertainer" assessment, but why doesn't Peart even try? Both of their personalities are unappealing, but Buddy at least seems to make more of an effort toward communicating something, whereas the dullness of Peart's performance seems to originate in his heart.


I think it is somewhat dangerous territory for the observer to try to read the mind of the performer. I mean, shouldn't you be able to shut your eyes and get something out of the music? I know it's "entertainment" and I know drums are one of the more visually exciting instruments to watch being played, but if we were listening to a recording, what difference would it make what anyone's expression looked like?

I mean... I often close my eyes when I play. Or when they are open, I often look constipated or twist my face into stupid looking contortions. This just comes naturally to me, and I can't really change it without becoming very self-conscious of the way I play. But I don't think it means that I have less or more into the performance than someone who plays very still and looks quiet.

One of my favorite guitar players (and one of the best young improvisers on the planet IMO), Derek Trucks, plays the most amazing stuff which involves a lot of intense musical tension and release, and he does it with the most dead-panned facial and body expressions I have ever seen. Not an "exciting" entertainer visually, but out of this world musically and very deep, which is really all that matters to me.

But I think you are right, in that some of the old generation of "drummer/entertainers" ala Rich and Krupa felt an obligation to show the audience visually how much fun they were having!

- D.
Author:  Kelly [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
Barely got through it.
I liked buddy back in the buddy days. I liked Peart back in the Peart days.
Seen them both live and thoroughly enjoyed them.
Can't do either now.
In these video's I see Buddy thinking/acting as if he is conquering the world. He really thought a lot of himself. I see Peart playing half heartedly. As if he's thinking "does anyone really want to hear this?"
I read an interview where Peart said he was very nervous when approached with this Buddy Rich thing. Knew he was out of his element.
Probably a better thing for Peart to have done was be Peart. No reason to conform to something else.

That type of playing, rolling around a kit, I can barely stomach anymore. Probably because I spent most of my early years doing the same thing. Just seems ridiculously outdated.
Author:  Gregory [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
phatsolid wrote:

I think it is somewhat dangerous territory for the observer to try to read the mind of the performer. I mean, shouldn't you be able to shut your eyes and get something out of the music? I know it's "entertainment" and I know drums are one of the more visually exciting instruments to watch being played, but if we were listening to a recording, what difference would it make what anyone's expression looked like?


- D.


I agree about reading the mind, but can we not read the spirit? A deadpan player may be highly focussed, but the musical intensity will transmit. A very active player may be all over the stage but leave one musically cold. I'm not advocating acrobatics; I move very little when I play, as little as possible, because motion, for me, gets in the way of rather than promotes feel.

Didn't realize that Peart was doing a Buddy Rich thing here. That would explain a lot, but does not explain the lackluster performance on Letterman - which was quite theatrical but without much evidence of a musical spirit.

What I really don't get is the sound of Peart's drums. How can you play an extended solo on such a dead sounding kit? Seems to me that to make a solo interesting, the kit has got to be a participant, making sounds that are greater than the sum of its parts. Just a thought.
Author:  cliff [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?
Gregory wrote:
...What I really don't get is the sound of Peart's drums. How can you play an extended solo on such a dead sounding kit?...

This may explain why he keeps adding more, hoping for better sounding ones?! :? :lol:
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