On drums...

I just received a K Zildjian Custom Dry 20" ride from Kelly. I have been noticing that my Bosphorus ride has too much shimmer for the quiet style I've been working on... and hearing that same type K ride on Cliff's recordings led me to ask Kel about trying his, if he wasn't married to it.

The effect of that dry cymbal was immediate. Most notable, it works better with the Designer kit than did the Bosphorus, which worked beautifully with the Classix. After playing the K, I removed a large and very light and soft Bosphorus China from the end of my cymbal lineup, and replaced it with the Bosphorus ride. Having the ability to fill out the tonal spectrum with an occasional reference (or crash) to the Bosphorus ride does a far better job than the big China at the end of a fill.

I can't expect to communicate adequately the sound of all this, but I can ask this of you experts: have you noticed that some cymbals work with one kit but not with another?

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but I'm going to try a hypothesis; please tell me I'm wrong, or that there are too many variable to make a flat-footed statement of the sort I'm about to make: Maple drums like the Designers, which are so warm, are better suited to drier cymbals, whereas birch drums, with less midrange warmth, work better with more full bodied (warmer, wetter, softer) cymbals.

This had never occurred to me. I assumed I could show up at any gig, on any kit, with my cymbal group and be ready to play. Not so sure about that anymore. I know some of you (e.g. Cliff) have a different cymbal set up for different kits. Comments, please.

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Gregory

Its funny that you should mention this topic, Gregory. I've been running myself around the flagpole trying to answer a similar question. While I think you can play any cymbal or cymbal set with any kit, I really think certain cymbal set-ups sound better with certain kits. I don't have a lot of empirical "proof"- if there is such a thing with something so subjective - but I've taken to picking out certain cymbals with a particular kit in mind.
I've never had the privilege to give a good birch kit an adequate amount of burn, but I notice a difference, even among my maple kits. The HiLites tend to like washier cymbals and the Designers really open up with cymbals on the "drier side."
I've often wondered if a lot of that had to do with my head choice too, though. I've come to the conclusion that each kit will have its own "set" of cymbals, based on the style I tend to use the kit for. But every time I think I've got it narrowed down, I find surprises...

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Ron- A.K.A "The Frenetic Rah Rah Guy"

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?

I would think your thoughts, and a reply, would be worth the necessary wait....

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Ron- A.K.A "The Frenetic Rah Rah Guy"

"This letter is long because I didn't have time to make it short." (Pascal, 1656)

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Gregory

I never really gave it much thought, but excluding opinions and personal preferences, I'm sure that certain cymbals would definitely suit specific kits better than others ............Makes perfect sense.
I find when I use my SClassix kit I tend to use my Crashes more, and hit a little harder. Could be I'm trying to fill the space created by the sharp,punchy Birch attack .When I use my phonic kit I tend to play the cymbals softer.Perhaps a case of one leaving room for the other,, eg;
Drier cymbals leave space for the warm resonance of Maple or Beech
Birch Attack/dryness leaves space for warmer/fuller cymbals.
Just as one kit can be perfectly appropriate for certain styles of playing, but not good for others, you can,at least, utilise the variables of tuning and heads to suit your needs. I use a different Cymbal set up for each band, and a different snare. The rest of the kit I use is the same.
However Gregory, you may have just given me an excuse to pull out one of my neglected kits, this one doesn't work for this band anymore .

Cheers

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Jeff
Gots ta luv da Beech
Australia

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Ron- A.K.A "The Frenetic Rah Rah Guy"

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?

Conceptually, it makes sense that musical qualities benefit from contrast. Sound loves relief. But, not just one type of relief. I suppose that's why we have rides, crashes, splashes, Chinas, hats and cowbells, to name some. I would not want to be caught playing out with just the K Dry and a couple of crashes. I would sorely miss the great sonic washes that rides can provide.

Still, when the toms are engaged, the K is the ticket; it allows their full range and sustain to emerge unmolested. This seems true regardless of volume: the lower the volume, the greater the clarity of... well, of everything, but the Bosphorus just can't help itself. Even at low volumes it opens out into a deluge.

With sufficient energy and curiosity, I could try mounting the same cymbals to the Classix. ... Naaah!

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Gregory

Great thread.
K darks are phenominal cymbals (one of the best series ever IMO). But my brighter louder XTremes worked noticeably better on my SQ's.
I think it has little to do with shell material and more to do with kit sound; lets say thick shelled verses thin shelled. And perhaps power toms verses short toms.
I view it as an EQ thing. A "bright" verses "Dark" thing. The reason I say it's not so much shell material is because a 10 x 10 birch tom can sound lower in tone than a maple 10 x 8.
Thin shelled SClassix would seem to be much brighter than Designers.