On drums...

I am all for it Goki, if you are spearheading the project. Do you have a particular purpose, or is it just a fun exercise? I am an aesthetics guy at heart. I've looked at a lot of drums over the past few years, although I must confess to a complete lack of interest in some of the best known marques. To make matters worse (as far as your idea goes), I do not even want to think about them, but I can be relied upon to comment on the visual design of almost anything

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I enjoyed the rundown of your thoughts on recent Sonor lines. Of the offered snares, you have picked the only two that caught my interest, as perhaps being worth investigating, and were I not so taken with the Lite and birch Signature snares I own, because of frothy wood sound they can generate, I might have chased ol' Benny around, a bit.

The "Prolite" name doesn't move me one way or the other, but then I can't think of any Sonor appellation, including the name "Sonor," that does move me. "Signature" was probably the best, because it held no cute double entendres and left no letters out. Regardless, I applaud moving German made birch, maple, and beech under one badge. It seems to me that there have been too many uncoordinated marketing efforts, resulting in a loss of identity and image. However, as I am not in the market for anything made new by Sonor, it's moot. The company no longer represents my interests, and its motions more resemble ducking sideways than moving forward.

A little surprised to hear you liked the Infinite series, since the floors are all undersquare and the bass is 22x20, for whatever reason. I guess you were not referring to the sizes.

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Gregory

To follow up on Cliff's post, and putting that together with Goki's suggested topic of discussion of other drums: if I were looking for another kit, I would not be in the market for SQs. I am not interested in companies who are simply trying to ride out the economic storm sitting on their laurels, and by cutting corners without innovation, or by offering something in different colors or different shell material, hoping to catch a ride on a wave. Rather, the smaller companies who ardently pursue an ideal, with innovative notions would be getting my attention.

In this arena I am a dunce but willing to learn, and am curious to find out what is available. Given the R2 throwoff, Dunnet seems a good enough place to start, and I am sure there must be others.

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Gregory

If I had a large budget I would investigate companies that make "solid" shells - not stave, segmented, steambent or ply - but taking a section of log and hollowing it out on a lathe until the final drum diameter and wall thickness is achieved. This type of shell should provide the most pure tone in comparison to the other shell types considering there would be no glue used or wood-to-wood intersections.

To preserve the pure tone a free floating lug system would be used - the benefit being that none of the hardware would be attached to the shell which would damp or alter the tone.

Barry

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Sig EB 14x14 t-s conv
Phonic+ 24, 18, 16 & 14(2)
Phonic 24, 22, 18 t-bd conv, 16, 16x12, 15, 14(2), 13, 12(3)
Snares: Phonic Roswd 10x14 & 14x14 t-s conv, D508 8x14, D518X, Performr & 3001
6 pc Performer kit
Sig/5000 II /Phonic hrdwr

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?

It is much more difficult and more wasteful than the other methods. Once the section of log is roughly hollowed out it must cure for a long period of time (a year or more) so that the wood stabalizes to minimize warping or splitting before the final lathing. Some of the sections will warp or split during the curing process and some will show flaws during the rough lathing. Those "blanks" would be discarded.

Barry

Barry

_________________
Sig EB 14x14 t-s conv
Phonic+ 24, 18, 16 & 14(2)
Phonic 24, 22, 18 t-bd conv, 16, 16x12, 15, 14(2), 13, 12(3)
Snares: Phonic Roswd 10x14 & 14x14 t-s conv, D508 8x14, D518X, Performr & 3001
6 pc Performer kit
Sig/5000 II /Phonic hrdwr

I really like you too,Kel . And everyone here, and I'm not doing the old "woe is me, I'm leaving". I enjoy the intelligent conversations.Maybe I was outta line,lots on my mind, I just don't enjoy the bashing, I should have just kept it to myself .But I'm still reading here , I just don't post very often.

Personally, If I were either Cliff or Gregory, I would hold a certain degree of hostillity in regards to the way they were treated at the Museum, I think that place has suffered greatly since all you guys left, were dismissed, whatever. The place isn't the same, now I have to "Stir the Pot" a little, BIFFO

My job is selling Drums, mainly Sonor as we are the biggest stockist in Melbourne. I love the product, and I'm probably a little biased, but I think its the best around.
I like to think that I have my own opinion (No offence Cliff ), but I also have a responsibility to represent the product in its best light, which is much easier when you honestly believe in it.
So, I hope I didn't offend anyone, it was definitely not my intention .


Cheers

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Jeff
Gots ta luv da Beech
Australia

No offense taken, Jeff, and I'm glad you are still here.

I disagree about museum bashing; at least that is not how I see it. I think of it as another publication, like a newpaper, whose editorial point of view runs cattywampus to mine. I tried to voice my opinion and was censored for the service. So now I state my opinions here, the few times it comes up. But really, I am much more interested in drums, drummers, and drumming, and don't have that much time to think about the museum doings.

To address the issue of hostility: first, thanks for those kind words. We weren't treated very well, but in the scheme of things, it doesn't matter much. I don't harbor hostility. I maintain quite a few friendships, and although the BAN has been lifted, there is no purpose in trying to reintegrate, because I am the still same person I was before the ban. It just wouldn't work... or if it did, it would be too much work.

Anyway, that's all water under the dam. I'm happy that you enjoy yourself over there, and I hope you continue to enjoy yourself here, too.

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Gregory

Canopus Zelkova? I read up on those just now, and apparently it is quite a trick, not having them turn out too fragile to use. Still, at only $1500 a snare, the price isn't unwieldy. A bass drum may be a bigger problem. It's worth reading their story on it, but you probably already have. http://www.canopusdrums.com/en/drumprod ... index.html

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Gregory

Jeff,
I am glad you posted. I logged on to come and write you a message. Now I will write it to you and the board.

After a somewhat short, but to the point, conversation with a very good friend lastnight, good enough to tell me the truth when he has to, who happens to read occassionally on both forums, I have had a change a heart about this. I feel I owe you and a few others an apology.
Cliff and Greg are in my life, friends for life, I love them both. I really don't have the need and neither do they, to agree all the time. We have plenty of disagreements.
Having said that, I have to agree that the air around here about the sonor museum and Scott specifically is not good. I know I am the main cause of that. Actually Cliff and Greg really don't harbor any ill feelings towards it but it's obvious I do. I had a lot of life and time invested in that place and Sonor in general. Sounds a lot like my problem doesn't it.
It has dawned on me, some really good people that I met on that forum have come over here to hang with us. They are still highly respected and well liked over there. It' is a gross injustice of me to put them in any kind of unfair uncomfortable position.
I have learned that forums, in general, are "give a person a keyboard and lord knows who they really are". It's an extremely rare person who is what they type.
Having said that, I am making a public apology, to this board, to that board, to Scott, and to anyone else that I might have offended or made uncomfortable.
I have never met most of the people I so freely bash. Who knows who they really are. The problem is it's easy not to like someone with a keyboard in their hand. I am a relationship type person. It is in me to really know who you are, what you are about. Above drums, above the mundane forum protocol. When I can't do that, I get frustrated. And it's easy not to like what I do not know. Merely for the fact that I do not know. Thus the relationship with Cliff and Greg. They let me into their homes and into their lives. That is why I came here. They never have to be keyboard perfect, because I understand them, know them.
I have never met Scott Lodgson. I don't like the keyboard Scott or the way he moderates. That's my problem. I know for sure it would be a totally different scenario if I met him. It's always been easy for me to find the good in everyone and everyone has it. I can only ask the same in life, that people look past my junk and see the good in me.

A lot of my issues are just that, my issues. I see myself in so many people on that forum. I see over the years recurring themes played over and over again. A once devoted, Sonor could do no wrong, blinded follower and I was one of the first.
I was playing Sigs and Sonorlites when Designers came out. How studid I thought the new stuff was. Laughable now.
When I discovered SClass Pros, Designers...I realized a lot of things where twisted in my approach and the way I thought about things in general. That lead to "well maybe I'm wrong about other makers out there, maybe they are not all junk".
And Sonor became a much smaller world for me. Closed in and claustrophobic. I really can't see me ever being so devoted to one brand again that I can't see past it to look at other things.
I still love Sonor drums. I don't think much of the new stuff but...maybe that will become laughable. A large part of me tells me that Sonor has lost their edge over the years but....they are still in the pack, in a different world, a different market. I can see staying a boutique, catering to the few perfectionists was not a good future for them.

K...I drifted. Again, my apologies to you Jeff. I want you to know, I get your point. We do look like we profess an air of arrogance, being better than someone else when this thing takes place. I think I'm the lead cause of it. But...I'm with you, I would rather hang with the baffoons. I just like hanging with these baffoons. Thank you for calling me on it.