On drums...

OK, this might be up there with "What kind of drum heads should I use?", but I'll ask anyway. What are the pros and cons of being an endorser and how does one become one anyway? These questions have crossed my mind in the past and I will be touring extensively next year, so the thought process returns like a bad penny. The conflicting issues are that I play Sonor acoustic sets exclusively and have since the mid-eighties, but I have such mixed feelings about the Sonor company. Any and all feedback would be appreciated.

Roland

Not so dumb Roland, and Interesting timing, makes me think too.
As of yesterday, I have been picked over a dozen other auditions. This band is busy, with management, equipment trailers and a couple disc's under their belt.
I have been informed, over time, it could go full time starting with extensive tours of the South.
I could not of been happier with the way my kit performed yesterday. Everyone there loved the sound of it. Me included.
But I've had thoughts before about this, look what they are. It's not like I can order up a replacement part in a hurry.

I tend to think as things get bigger I would start to care a little less about what drums "exactly" I would be playing. In these smaller more personal settings, the little details matter a lot to me. Not that I think I will be doing arena's, but clubs, large events, PA systems...the little nuances get lost in all that anyway.
I've done large rock clubs before, and I think I could have been playing anything, even Pearl or DW's , once the sound guy got a hold of me.

Side note: First thing I realized yesterday is the soft cases have to go. I need to get a set of hard cases.

Roland,

Without opening cans of rotten worms, what is it that really bothers you about Sonor?

BTW, I am just so jealous of you that you have some freedom to actually travel and play music, it's hard for me to get past that! If you really dig playing Sonor, I would just gig with them. Life is too short to keep the drums you love locked up at home. That being said, I think it would be a great learning experience to try to get sponsored. I would probably start with a smaller company making good quality drums, like Phattie. There's a lot of them out there. Maybe someone local to you, so you could start to build a relationship face to face.

************

Kelly,

Let me know what size hard cases your looking for. I have lots of Enduro style without foam inserts.

- David

Endorsements are a a 2 way street. What can you offer a (any) company in exposure/advertising? This is the main reason a company offers/does them. Most companies require that you are in a band that has at least one disc out. They look at things like how often and where you play. Does the band have/do videos? Do they get air play? Things of this nature..

Your side: You get a discount on equipment. How much depends on who you are and play for. A good endorsement gets you parts shipped to you (or wherever you choose) in a reasonable time. There is also things like backline support. Where if you were to fly to a gig, they would make sure a set of their brand is there for you to play.

Things to consider. 1) Support. Several players have left Sonor because of lack of tour support. Todd Sucherman is one and look at how big the band he plays in is. 2) Do you really want to say "These are the best drums out there" when someone asks you. Granted most nuances would never matter and most would never notice, but you are in the PR game now. Sell, sell, sell!! 3) Support. If something breaks and .... When something breaks, is this company going to be able to get you the parts you need in a short amount of time. 4) Support.....

Sometimes one endorsement will help you get another. A company that is on the fence about you, will come to your side if they see another company in your camp. So you may want to consider smaller companies as in sticks, heads, etc. Those are things you will definitely need on a constant basis.

David,

To cut to the chase about Sonor, even if I believed that there was some linguistical and cultural slipping through the cracks explanation for the whole Alpi products with natural wood nomenclature debacle, that does not exonerate Sonor or Hohner or the retailers for not coming clean. They continued to sell product with full knowledge that customers believed that they were buying the genuine article. I don't endorse that kind of business model. Now, this is all water under the bridge so to speak and I don't lose sleep over it but their relationship with the "museum" and it's now legendary stance of "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" makes me consider the present realities of the company.

Conversely, I play Sonor drums and wouldn't even consider endorsing a product that I don't really play. I'm sorry for over-thinking the matter, but the principles of integrity cut both ways. Quite honestly, I have considered the advantages of getting a break on what would probably be my last drum set purchase.

Latz, your comments about Sonor's dismal support has been all I have ever heard about that continuing saga, so my expectations there are non-existent. Maybe I ought to consider the peripheral endorsements as you suggest. Thanks for the comments guys. Keep them coming.

Kelly, if David's cases are the right sizes, soft cases slide real nicely into unlined cases and the finish remains protected.


Roland

What's the point of endorsing if you don't get any support when you need it? I understand that you want to play something that you truly believe in, but to me it sounds like you are just in it for a better deal on a new kit. That is the wrong reasons to seek an endorsement, IMO...

Latz,

You may be absolutely right about that. I don't know if a new kit is my only reason...but that's the problem, my motivations on the subject are at best mixed if only because I don't know enough about the process and the advantages and disadvantages. I have done fine all of these years without it, but I wanted to investigate the possibilities. When I was younger, my motivations would have been even more shallow conjuring images of prestige and assumed competence. I told you these were stupid questions. In any event, your honesty is appreciated.

Roland

Interesting question, Roland. I can't help with the central issue because I've never been there; only second hand information, plus personal non-professional experience, suggest that a business relationship with Sonor and Hohner would be less than productive. However, the question of one's relationship with the ethics of Sonor is interesting. I'm glad - though I expect it from you - that you're not eager to become identified with a corporate image.

First I have to think about my relationship with Sonor. It is tempting to pick up the sword and cut the tether for the reasons you've stated so well upstairs. But I'm not about to sell or stop playing my Designers because I don't like Sonor's choice of advertising strategy. Why not?

An independent player supports a company through purchases and visibility. The relationship carries no contractual weight. The independent is free, when asked, to say "I love this kit, but I won't endorse the company. Great drums; a pity they decided too..., etc etc."

An endorser supports a company through visibility, too, but also, through the use of his name and reputation for corporate advertising value, in return for certain considerations. Rubber meets road. He is no longer free of the consequences of stating his opinions.

Lending your reputation and name is a grave business. Were I approaching that position, I'd be looking at the qualities of the company: stability (will the company be here tomorrow?) open communication, quality of service, availability of spare parts, and all those things that Mr. Latz details. Sonor/ Hohner will probably be around for a while, but I would also be looking at the ethics of the company. To my way of seeing, Sonor has shamed itself in ways that have been stated before, and I would be uncomfortable snuggling up to Sonor... unless, of course, they were to give me a free snare and a plane ride.

The more I look at it, the odder a thing endorsement is. In some ways it's expected; there is a perception that not being sponsored in some way diminishes stature. Personally, I like the notion of maintaining freedom, and playing what I like without having to lend my name to it. If one is wealthy enough, he can adopt that pose universally.

If I were about to start touring, I'd be packing my Designers along and spending no money on new drums, and look into support with sticks and heads. But, if I needed kit support, I would do what Dave and David have suggested; find a small builder with a good track record, and look into sticks and heads.

Sorry to ramble on.

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Gregory

Following Greg’s comments, I would only say that any relationship can be tenable, provided it is understood from the outset what the nature of the relationship is.

Kelly has said many times something to the effect of, ‘It isn’t about the company, it is about the drums.’ Not that anybody has asked, but I would endorse Sonor Designer Series drums, and maybe even SQ2’s, but I would have some of the same reservations as Roland in regards to endorsing Sonor, the company.

Roland seeking consideration in the form of price subsidy is a legitimate trade for some sort of ‘endorsement deal’, and each will seek a deal based upon what benefits he needs or wants from the counterparty, and how competent each party is at providing what.

For a guy doing a ‘van & trailer’ tour situation, financial assistance enabling one to play a kit on the road that is the equivalent to one’s own high dollar home/studio kit, without subjecting your own kit to roadie wear and tear and risk of loss in hotel, restaurant and truck stop parking lots, in exchange for providing the manufacturer good visibility is not a bad trade, and the manufacturer’s performance takes place largely upfront. If one can get a kit at an economically viable price upfront, receiving the value bargained for is pretty much assured.

If you are a guy doing fly-away gigs, and backline support is what you need, then you could get pretty near showtime at every gig before you could know if your needs are met, and sitting on an empty drum riser with a sign reading, “Sonor kit goes here” is not a viable option, so the ability to deliver regularly replaces a one time performance by the manufacturer here.

Depends on (i) what support you need, (ii) how capable and willing the counterparty is to provide it, and, (iii) what you are willing to endorse to get it.

p.s. By the way, Roland, pretty damn presumptuous to believe you have posted the 'Dumb Questions of the Month' at something less than the midpoint of the month. You have been around enough to know better.

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?

I think I soiled my shorts. My sides hurt way too much!!!

Roland