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cliff
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:44 am 
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It has been interesting to see (on the Sonormuseum forum) the posting of link to a 1982 Jack DeJohnette clip from the Montreal Jazz Festival in which JD uses a Signature kit.

One poster declares this to be proof that we have all been taken by ‘…wicked marketing schemes…’, consistent with his apparent newly discovered, ‘born again’ belief that all drums are now equally suited for all things. :?

Another, a relatively unknown endorser, puts the clip forward as evidence that square toms may be all the world needs, if properly tuned. There is no attempt in this particular post to reconcile this view to the apparently infinite and unnecessary array of variations currently offered as SQ2’s.

For a while, there was a complaint that the inmates had taken over the asylum over there; it seems now that the inmates have been restored to their proper station as resident nuts. :o

There are some real issues with what may be a deceptive perception of Signature versatility. The DeJohnette clip on the Sonormuseum forum does not mean much to me, as:

• The sound quality of the clip does not really facilitate any sort of assessment of what they sound like.
• The toms are barely used throughout the entire clip, in marked contradiction to JD’s usually very melodic style of playing.

All we know is that Signatures are what was available for Jack to play in spring of 1982. Not surprising, as Signatures were recently introduced, and both JD and the Montreal Jazz Festival are pretty high profile. I don’t know this for certain, but I don’t believe that JD has ever owned Signatures. Shortly thereafter, JD has most frequently seen playing Lites, and then HiLites.

My limited experience with playing jazz with Signatures is that they work for me with 10 mil single ply heads, if played with minimal attack. On the other hand, try to get this same set up to work at moderate un-miced volume, and I am going to work too hard, and end up with dented single ply heads.

My conclusion is that Signatures are versatile recording drums – maybe even more versatile than what they have been used for, but that I would not get overly optimistic about great versatility in ambient situations.

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River City Trio

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Last edited by cliff on Sun May 09, 2010 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gregory
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 1:50 pm 
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I think it's best for all concerned, without any particular bias, that I'm no longer reading or posting in certain circles :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Goki
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 2:09 am 
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My experience with Signature and Jazz has always been GREAT...

I played a Signature bop set once, and it was fantastic.
It's the same set I'm listening over and over - every year on the Skopje Jazz Festival (a cultural center here owns the set - 18bd, 10tt, 12tt, 14ft, 14x6 snare)
Being mic-d on stage, it's very melodic. Of course, only the best performers use it, so everything sounds great when they play.
But, I must say that with coated Ambassadors top and bottom, it sounds absolutely fantastic.
The only thing that I have as a "bad comment" - they tend to sound thunderous, because of the square depth...

So.... The bottom line - Signatures are great drums. I think that if they weren't square sizes - they'd sound even better... :)
I think SONOR realized that when they offered Phonics and Sigs side by side. So, as a compromise, they started offering POWER depths.
And with the Designer, they maximized the sound projection and resonance, at the same time minimizing shell/metal contact... ;)

Just my opinion...

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Jeff
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:04 am 
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Prior to joining the SonorMuseum Forum some yrs ago, I had seen only 4 Signature kits, and I knew of 2 others. ALL there owners were Jazz drummers :? .
I think the setting is more relevant than the music style, my SClassix kit is way too big for the Restaurant/Tavern shows we play, and we play CCR, Rolling Stones,The Doors etc...

Theres no doubt that certain kits are better suited to certain styles, a good player can make any kit work,but if I had to use a Siggy kit at an intimate show, I probably wouldn't be asked back :? :oops: :lol:

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Gregory
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:24 am 
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A stronger endorsement of Signatures in jazz (or in rock, for that matter) would be professional drummers using them.

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cliff
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:25 am 
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Hey Goki,

No doubt that a competent player can make almost any kit work for almost any situation.

My point was more that posting a poor quality audio clip, in which the toms are hardly used does not function well to "...show how our many discussions about the "right drum for jazz" as opposed to the "right drums for rock" are basically the results of wicked marketing schemes..."

We have all seen photos of Evel Knievel jumping large gaps with a motorcycle. It proves that it can be done; not that it is as good as any other way to cross. :?

Obviously, I am not suggesting that Signature can not be used for jazz, as I am doing so myself, but I would not use them by choice with two deep rack toms up front, partly for the reason you mentioned.

I think Signatures are great drums as well, but neither Signatures, nor any thing else, prove the theory put forth in the referenced string, that the concept of different configurations for different applications is "...basically the results of wicked marketing schemes..."

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River City Trio

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Gregory
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:28 am 
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cliff wrote:


We have all seen photos of Evel Knievel jumping large gaps with a motorcycle. It proves that it can be done; not that it is as good as any other way to cross. :?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

It is if you want people to watch.

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Goki
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:02 pm 
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I agree Cliff...

I'm sure that if the guys back here had both Designers and Sigs to choose from - most will choose the Designers... ;)

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Gregory
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:20 pm 
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cliff wrote:
... neither Signatures, nor any thing else, prove the theory put forth in the referenced string, that the concept of different configurations for different applications is "...basically the results of wicked marketing schemes..."


It does prove it, if by "wicked" he means it counters his own predilections.

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