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 Post subject: HOW BIG IS YOUR KIT?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:19 pm 
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I love this topic, and Royal Ace's comment here, from a response to a photo from my old Signature kit, because it deserves its own thread:

Royal ace wrote:
1. I prefer the old, shallower depths. :roll:
2. All my drum role models made do with 4 drums, excepting Elvin and Jack, neither of whom, in later days, had to shlep, set up and tear down themselves! :lol:
Ron


The reason I love the topic is because it addresses three issues; ego, reality, and style.

As an ego issue, nothing is funnier, sadder, or more awkward than a drummer with too many drums. He feels either compelled to use them all and thus plays way too much, or, like the guy with the Signature bubinga double bass kit with only one pedal, has them up there for show (the explanation was his, not mine). I guess that falls under the heading of Dumbo's Feather: what you don't need but don't know you don't need.

I played a four piece for twelve years before I got a five piece. More drums more music, right? Well, more drums more noise, maybe. Such was my case; I never learned how to play that five piece, and I had it for ten years.

Not certain that "reality" is the word I want, but it will do to describe the fact that the most we have is four reasonable limbs for drumming. So huge kits cannot really provide the ability to hit more drums than a four piece - or even a three piece- can. In the hands of a competent drummer, all sorts of sounds can be massaged from a small kit, and since sound is relative to the other sounds around it, a full spectrum is available to anyone who knows how to manipulate it.

How do we justify larger kits? In a word, style. Not fashion, which is something or somewhere or someone else - but not us. Some folks seem to have no style, or at least their style might be said to be fairly careless. Others seem to have none because they are attentive to fashion, so their style is dependent upon what others think - or what they think others think - about them. But style is a combination of who we are, what we've learned, what has happened to us, who our role models are and how we have assimilated that which resonates with us. It is the way in which we do a thing, how we walk, how we breath.

When I got rid of the "fashionable five" piece kit in favor of a four piece (it was what I could afford at the time), I suddenly found all sorts of patterns making musical sense, using all the equipment at hand. No additional temptations to lead me astray, no "gotta get that other drum in here somehow." Playing a four piece is enforced creativity.

Ron, my role models all use four piece kits, too. But I've changed a good deal over the years. I think of my six piece as a four piece, with a couple of extra effects at either end of the spectrum. I can absolutely get along without the two extra pieces, but it is my style to enjoy the frisson available from extra bits of tonality, whether it be the faux drop tone in a press roll from the 8 to the 12, or a closing of the barn door with a 16 (better yet, an 18) after all the horses have been put inside. The remarkable 8 to 16 drop is also very compelling, but in that case, the four piece is bass/ snare/ 8/ 16.

I am very comfortable leaving two drums behind when gigging, but the first to drop off is the highest tom. I love bottom! :) :) :)

Now then, I think I've said all that before, too.

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 Post subject: Re: HOW BIG IS YOUR KIT?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:28 pm 
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I usually gig with a four piece, unless it's a DME film gig, in which case the setup gets to be huge. The films require all sorts of special effects, so I used to add more cymbals, then a keyboard, then a set of orchestra bells. No problem
http://www.saltwaterfilmsociety.org/det ... =jah19&c=a
Enter Red Heroine...
http://www.saltwaterfilmsociety.org/det ... edh_14&c=a

a week into tour I could set it all up in fifteen minutes, and it was a hell of a lot of fun to play, but so much stuff. The music demands it though.

A four piece is home though, and I can't really deal with more than 4 cymbals, three is best..


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 Post subject: Re: HOW BIG IS YOUR KIT?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:42 pm 
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That's all just as neat as can be, Tim. The equipment fits the job. And what remarkable equipment :)

Style also has to suit the gig!

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 Post subject: Re: HOW BIG IS YOUR KIT?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:54 pm 
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Thanks Greg,
The only holes in my percussion arsenal are some tympani and a marimba, but I think I would need a bigger house if they showed up.
They probably will someday though ;)
I'm a huge bell fan, those JD resonating bells are unbelievable instruments for a tuned bell. Cup chimes are a favorite for non tuned/improv things.
But you want to get into some fun?
Check out Hammerax stuff. It's as addicting as sonor snares!


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 Post subject: Re: HOW BIG IS YOUR KIT?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:23 pm 
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I am pretty much in the same camp as Greg, and to a degree, with Ron, on this one.

While usual my set-up on two of three kits is 6 piece (two mounted toms, two floor toms), and the other kits is a traditional 4 piece kit, my view of the 6 piece kits is '4 piece with an added high and an added low'. I still 'think' in terms of 4 piece, but with extra 'accents' available.

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?


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 Post subject: Re: HOW BIG IS YOUR KIT?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:41 pm 
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Location: lordandkelly@comcast.net
What constitutes a large kit?
Is a 6 piece kit only another bass drum away from being too large?
To assume or think large kits make bad players is silly. Many have done it amazingly; Simon Philips, Neil peart.
Can a guy on a 4 piece do the same thing? No he can't. Doesn't make either one a poor drummer. Style would sum it up.
Playing a large kit is also forced creativity. Some do it poorly, but some do 4 piece kits poorly.
If you are talking about the ridiculously large 4 bass drum 10 tom kits I can see it. Most of the stuff can't even be reached.


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 Post subject: Re: HOW BIG IS YOUR KIT?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:51 pm 
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Kelly wrote:
What constitutes a large kit?
Is a 6 piece kit only another bass drum away from being too large?
To assume or think large kits make bad players is silly. Many have done it amazingly; Simon Philips, Neil peart.
Can a guy on a 4 piece do the same thing? No he can't. Doesn't make either one a poor drummer. Style would sum it up.
Playing a large kit is also forced creativity. Some do it poorly, but some do 4 piece kits poorly.



I think I see which track you went down, Kel, but I did not suggest that there is such a thing as too big a kit per se. What I do suggest is that there is such a thing as too big a kit for me. The more drums, the more confusing it becomes.

The drummers you mention are perfectly at home in all that stuff. Others come to mind.

When it comes to style, it is rare that a large kit player really appeals to me. I have thoughts about why that might be, but none of those thoughts are particularly judgmental. It's just not my taste.

As to a large kit being enforced creativity... Hmmm... not sure I follow that thought. What I mean by enforced creativity is that going 'around the world' on a five piece, it is too easy to engage snare, rack 1, rack 2, floor tom, Crash!, and the four bar fill is filled. With a four piece, you go snare, rack, floor... and now what? It's a mathematical problem without an obvious solution.

Not to say that twenty drums wouldn't pose questions, but the questions all that equipment poses I'm not interested in answering. Call it intellectual sloth if you like! :) I am impressed by guys who can manipulate all that, but I think I would just as soon learn to play the xylophone.

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 Post subject: Re: HOW BIG IS YOUR KIT?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:18 pm 
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Location: Skopje, Republic Of Macedonia
My ideal combination is a five piece set, with 2 crashes, splash, ride and hihat.
My "gig" setup is a 4 piece with 4 cymbals.
My minimum setup is was a 3 piece with 3 cymbals.
My maximum setup was 7 piece (2 snares) with 5 cymbals.

I strongly believe that less equipment brings out creativity in the drummer, and help him discover tonal differences on a single drum piece. But, when using a 4 piece, I must admit I miss another tom... :( Not all the time, but You still wish it was there... :)

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Let the good drums roll!!!


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 Post subject: Re: HOW BIG IS YOUR KIT?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:24 pm 
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It's amazing! I agree with everything everybody has said! What an enlightened bunch we are! :lol: 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: HOW BIG IS YOUR KIT?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:31 pm 
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Cymbals... at the moment, my ideal is 4... plus HH..., but 2 simplifies carting and gains respect from band mates. ;) :lol:


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