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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:36 pm 
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That is, if for no other reason:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09j6vMdKi3E

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:01 pm 
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I didn't enjoy it.
Jeff probably will.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:13 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, now we know something about your disdain for Charlie.

For the rest of you swinging cats, here's another interesting performance by Fred Below (same concert as previous link) on Sonor teardrops. Please Don't Laugh at Me. Never seen anyone alternate stick ends to get different stick sound repeatedly like this, but it is not ubiquitous so not just showmanship. Very sensitive playing by a guy who started as a jazz drummer.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:31 pm 
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An interview with Fred Below by Scott K Fish. Great information for those who might be interested.

https://scottkfish.wordpress.com/2016/0 ... in-school/

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:13 pm 
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Kelly wrote:
I didn't enjoy it.
Jeff probably will.


:lol: I did, at least a little. Couldn't hear his kick drum, though.
The Singer/Guitarist in my band like's Howlin' Wolf.
I might steal his groove a little for one of our tracks. ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:27 pm 
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Dang, didn't post the second link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1HqGWaS8wk

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:21 am 
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Greg,

Not being facetious, but a sincere question: What had you previoulsy been listening to that you considered 'blues' as opposed to some of these things?

In discussions we have had over time, you had expressed some disdain for the blues, and I wonder now if (i) these older, root players were not included in your scope at the time, or, (ii) this stuff was included, and you are just appreciating different things now?

Interesting comments from Fred Below about bringing structure to the blues players he was introduced to, after coming from the jazz world. I suspect that almost anyone would have had the same experience dealing with music rooted in solo writers/performers, largely unschooled. No reason for the chord change to be anywhere but where it just happens, eh?

Unrelated anecdote, but there used to be a 'jazz guitarist' that played in a Mexican restaurant that I used to frequent in my home town in CT, for the food, not the noise. This guy played shit that was not even music, and simply benefitted from the fact that no one had to follow him, no one was going to challenge him, and the ambient noise buried him for all but the unluckiest of tables.

i used to call him 'Noodles'. He didn't think it was polite, but believe me, it was.
:?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:01 pm 
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cliff wrote:
Greg,

Not being facetious, but a sincere question: What had you previoulsy been listening to that you considered 'blues' as opposed to some of these things?

In discussions we have had over time, you had expressed some disdain for the blues, and I wonder now if (i) these older, root players were not included in your scope at the time, or, (ii) this stuff was included, and you are just appreciating different things now?
:?


I've always liked (most but not all) the older black blues musicians, and particularly Wolf and Mud because they were dirtier. Not sure why that was a virtue, but I liked the sound of it.

From there, my answer becomes necessarily more complex, because the more modern blues becomes, the less I like it. The Stones did passable well with it, but that was probably more due to the combination of Jones, Richards and Watts than anything else. They clearly studied it, and Watts had the jazz background to make it swing. Other rockers did not. I found the white blues bands weak, John Mayal, Blues Breakers, Blues Project, Paul Butterfield. I really wanted to like them, but...

Then they just got louder, became riff and beat heavy, turned into heavy metal. I have zero patience with that stuff. All impact and no subtlety. Uh 1 Uh 2 Uh 3 Uh 4.

This clip shows Wolf's guitar player Hubert Sumlin (same as the youngster on stage with him in the last vids) with a fairly modern blues group. The music is accomplished, slick, forceful. All the subtlety of the sound has given way to the self-hyping pulse of the drums and bass. In my opinions. But hey, we sound big, and the chicks are getting loose!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_5gVABCUH4

I would add that part of my new interest in the blues is in discovering that the use of jazz rhythms makes the form far more creative. Just the jazz ride pattern makes everything swing better than da-ding da-ding da-ding da-ding. But in order to focus on the "jazz" side of blues, the volume has to be cut back to human levels, so that people have to lean in to listen rather than being overwhelmed by volume.

By the way,I did not use "Smokestack Lightning" as an exemplary tune. It just happens to be one where the hands of Fred Below are visible, and my focus is on his use of standard jazz technique. I had been playing much of Cupola's music the same way, and what a surprise to see that I had connected right back to the roots of rock n roll by so doing.

That form can be applied to all rockabilly, blues, early rock n roll, elvis, carl perkins, roy orbison, johnny cash, valentinos, gospel, R&B, etc.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:45 pm 
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Hey Greg,

Response somewhat as expected; I just did not know if you had been listening to any of the real blues players.

As a player, you, like me, grew up with people 'playing blues' primarily because they knew three chords and could pretend it was something when played at a variety of tempos, but usually at maximum volume, regardless.

I think that in the entire circle of guys I played with in my early days, there was one guitarist (one of my best friends to this day), that got it, and really played blues. He can sing, too.

Not unlike you say in regards to working a backbeat with swing, it has always been the stuff considered most simple that the fewest emulators ever got right. 99.5% of the rock bands killing Johny B Goode missed that the subtle tension was working one against the other, not just playing it louder and crunchier. Most Chuck Berry stuff is that way. I truly wonder how Chuck stayed sane for all those years that he toured on his own, using pick-up bands in every town. Some nights must have sucked, but the good ones must have been special.

Likewise, I feel bad about what people have missed when they don't get what a master of 'feel' Watts is, rather than a technician. It is akin to not liking an actor because you can't tell he/she is acting.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:39 pm 
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Yes, certainly had been listening to the older guys, but with a different ear now.

Who says Chuck Berry stayed sane?

What really compels me in watching these old vids is to see that those guys interacted musically, in ways that can be guessed at but without any clarity on the albums. Many were jazz players using some of the same vocabulary, but at the same time staying true to the blues. From what I have read, that was not automatic.

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