On drums...

Goki,
It will be absolutely worth the wait, toil, and anguish. When you finally get the Designers, you will be floored .

There is absolutely no comparison between Designers and HiLites. HiLites have a nice, warm sound (stop rolling your eyes, Kel! ), but the Designers take things to whole 'nother level.

I can't wait to see how things unfold for you now....

_________________
Ron- A.K.A "The Frenetic Rah Rah Guy"

ha!
I love when he puts up pictures. Thank you Goki.
I can only echo everyone else and believe firmly you will never look back at Hilites. You will be a Designer addict for life.
Just wish you would get a 20 kick and not an 18. These guys have had way too much influence on ya. ha

Great shirt!

I'm with Kelly on the bass drum diameter. Besides that it will be easier to locate and pay for than an 18, the 20" will be infinitely more versatile, and only marginally more difficult to schlep from gig to gig. I seem to remember seeing The Stanton Moore Trio with Will Bernard (Guitar) and Robert Walter (Organ) a couple of years ago. Stanton was touring with an 18" bass drum and it just didn't work for me sonically. It just went woof, woof, woof all night with its high pitched bark. Unless you're going over to the traditional Bop side of things, Get a 20" and you'll be more than happy.
Brian

_________________
Drums and No Money will get Me through Hard Times better than Money and No Drums!
-A Recovering Drum Addict

Yup - the more and more I think about stuff, it looks like I'll be after the 20" bass drum...


So - the search is narrowed to 20,10,12,14ft.




Now - here's another dilemma - what about S Classix?!?

_________________
Goki - short from Goran

Let the good drums roll!!!

Goki, you've been dreaming Designers for quite a while now. Perhaps it would help, in thinking about Classix, what it is about Designer maple lights that has been been compelling. They are different animals, with certain commonalities. Both are very resonant. Both have great projection. Both are very quick.

The Classix are a bit more articulate, by which I mean that the attack is more pronounced.

Designers are warmer, more mid-range. To give that a framework, for the sound I am trying to achieve, Classix work much better with coated heads, whereas Designers work better with clear heads. The Classix respond well to the muting characteristics of coatings, Designers respond well to the wide open characteristics of clear. Designers are acoustically stingy when wearing coated heads. Classix are overly generous when wearing clear (again, for my taste, the only constant here).

If a lot of full bodied jelly-bellied sound is what you're after, one that fills the sonic space and melds with other instruments, Designers will be a better pick. If a slimmed down sound, strong articulation with plenty of lower frequency sustain, one that fits like a glove around the music but does not interfere with other instruments mid-range sonic space is your meat, Classix.

Trying to give absolutes is very difficult. I am tempted to say, for instance, that the Designer 12 is prone to sonic woofiness (loss of articulation and mushy resonance), but while that is true in my room it was not true on a stage with good acoustics. In fact, it seemed thin in that setting, while the floors were on fire, exactly the reverse of the sound in my room. Nonetheless, I will be setting the Classix up in the space where my Designers are. I have been playing Designers long enough to feel I have familiarity with them, at least as much as I have with the Classix, so this would be a good time to A/B them in a singular setting.

Lily arrives home tomorrow night, and so I am in clean-the-house mode right now, but hopefully some time today I'll find time to make the switch.

Cheers!

_________________
Gregory

Yay! Lily is coming home.

It takes me a week at least to switch kits

Greg would be the one to speak on this topic.
I will just add my opinion which should be taken with a grain of salt.
I have not owned SClassix, but I have owned enough of every Sonor line to at least believe I comprehend how Sonor thinks and speaks.

I believe SClassix are incredible drums. My experience has been, based on where Sonor has the kit sitting in their line up, that they ARE in fact incredible drums. I think Signature/lites, Designers/SClass Pros.

Looking at the sizes Goki is after, and the type of music I hear on his recordings, using that to assume the venues he will most likely be playing at, my guess is Designers are the way to go for him. I think they would be much easier to control in intimate/close settings and still retain their natural vibe.

Because a series is considered "top of the line", it does not always make them top preference. Sometimes less is better or too much is...too much.
Just making sure I'm clear on how I approach it. Possible they are not for everyone.
I am of the opinion though that Designers are incredible drums. Sitting at the top of "top of the line" drums. I think though if I was still playing in big rock bands I would prefer SClassix.

Goki strikes me as a Designer guy. Everything about him.
I'm looking at it this way: If you get Designers I see no chance of you being disappointed.
If you got SClassix I see no chance of you being disappointed but I could see you being disappointed later that you did not get Designers, leaving the question unanswered to eat at you.

I can pipe in having owned both. Wishing I still had both...

Designers are killer drums if you can get them for a good price in the sizes you want. Trying to get more drums to match your kit is a pain in the ass and usually very expensive, which is why I still don't have any more drums for that kit. That being said, for smaller rooms when I play acoustic they are fantastic drums. They record really well, as we all know by listening to Cliffs tracks and countless others.

I feel like the classix have an edge over them in terms of portability and getting the drum setup you want, as they are current production. They are extremely lightweight and friendly on the back, perfect for late night load outs. when I sold mine I had aquarian american vintage heads on them, which sounded fantastic. Those heads really warmed the drums up without losing any tone or sustain. For rock music they kill, you can hear them through anything. tuned high they sound great as well. I never got a chance to play them unmiced so I don't have that comparison, but through a PA they are thunderous.

Flip a coin I guess. the only way to really know which one is better for you is to play both in the situations that you normally are in. Which almost never happens without buying both kits.

Both kits sound better than Hilites I think, you just don't get those cool tube lugs with the designer or classix.
Sorry if this doesn't help, just my thoughts.
If I see a designer kit in sweden this weekend I will email you, who knows, it might happen.

Excellent TIm. Agree 100 percent.

You could also take all that cash you got from the Hilites and get some plane tickets to New york, meet up with a bunch of us and fly home with whatever crappy kit we pick out for you. Might cost the same as some designers. Plus we all get to hang out.
Don't worry, I'm sure we would get something like an old ludwig or slingerland kit for you, those sound just as good as designers with the right tuning

USA stays as a possibility for next September...
But, I'll definitely come back without a drumset - OK, maybe a snare drum...

Now, I'm thinking through all the options... We'll see what happens...

As far as birch is concerned - I LOVED the sound of my F3k - the bottom end I liked very much. They were loud and clear...
Just one more question - S Classix sound better with clear or coated heads?!? Single ply or 2 ply on top?!?

_________________
Goki - short from Goran

Let the good drums roll!!!