On drums...

I've been able to do a lot of experimenting lately with different set-ups (sizes, wood types etc), and I've been looking for something. I didn't really know quite exactly what that "something" was, but I was willing to take myself "out of the box" to find it. On a (somewhat educated) whim, I decided to flip my 18" floor tom on its side and play it as a kick drum.
Over the next three days, I was absolutely dumbfounded by the changes in my playing. That little experiment seemed to open up possibilities that I had only barely imagined before.
I was going to convert the floor tom to a kick drums (hoops, claws, lugs, heads, etc.) but that isn't going to happen.

Instead, my plan is to simply order an 18" bass drum.

I find myself laughing because I never even considered the idea, but once I tried it..the sound was exactly what I was looking for. The feel and response I got from the drum were jaw dropping and the sound coming out of it just suited what I was playing so, so much better than a bigger kick. Its sort of funny because going back to my 22" was a weird experience. I kept thinking to myself "Gosh, this thing sure is boomy."

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Ron- A.K.A "The Frenetic Rah Rah Guy"

Hey Ron,

I think you have just walked into a room that you won't be able to back out of!

While it is still a bit difficult to put into words what exactly happens, going to an 18" kick does indeed change your whole style. A good 18" can be everything from tight and punchy to rich and warm. It demands that I pay attention to how I am playing it, and that seems to make me focus more on the on sounds being made and the dynamics applied to the whole rest of the kit.

Before getting 18" Signature and Designer kicks in the past year or two, I had always used 20's, and was comfortable with them for both jazz and rock, and I could still survive with 20's now, if I had to, but lately, unless a bigger sound is absolutely required, I am regularly using 18's.

Is this your Designer kit that we are talking about? Will you be ordering an 18" SQ2 kick? What depth will you choose?

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?

That is the distinct feeling I get too! When I played my 22" today, I was actually a little bummed out..


I know (or feel I know) very much what you're saying. I cannot convey it either, but it literally blew the lid off my playing. I felt so inspired and the playing felt so dialed in that I actually surprised myself. The 18" was tight and punchy and had so much potential for variation that I spent hours exploring its possibilities.



Yes, this was my Designer 18" floor. After driving myself stupid looking at finishes, I decided that Solid Black lacquer suited me just fine. As far as the depth, my 18" floor is 18" deep and that sound really, really blew me away so I'll probably order a weird 18" x 18" kick. I'm basically planning on "replicating" the sound I got out of the floor in a new kick.
And my square 12" tom seemingly found a role too. I had it set up as a "mounted floor" and was stunned by how good it sounded.
I did a lot of experimenting, analysis, and "soul searching" while I was "away" and really came up with a much more solid idea of where I might be headed, musically...

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Ron- A.K.A "The Frenetic Rah Rah Guy"

18" bass drums sound great Ron...

There are situations where they don't work, like bigger rooms and no mic, BUT, in general, they have a very lively sound and a great punch...
Like Cliff said, a good 18" can replace (almost) everything...

I'll take my Catalina's for example. They work great in small venues. They just lack the punch in normal places, unless there's a mic inside. I'm not very happy with the sound though, but I doubt I'll get more from a budget series drums...


Good luck with the idea - I think a 16" deep bd would work very well too...
Since You have a Designer, the new SQ2 would look and sound the same - and, since it's a bd, the badge won't be a visual problem...


I always said that if I find an 18" Hilite bd, I'll NEVER sell the kit - but, the 4 year search found nothing...

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Goki - short from Goran

Let the good drums roll!!!

You'll only miss a 22 when you need some serious low thud I feel like. That being said I really wish I had one, just to be varied in sounds.

The sonor 18 is incredible, I don't think another series of !8's can hold a candle to them.
I played a gretsch new classic as my rental kit this weekend with an 18 and it was a million miles apart. I tuned it where I wanted it and it had no real tone except for "that great gretsch sound" That was really all I could get out of it, and it wasn't the sound I needed right then.(If you do though I would recommend them, they sound very close to round badge kits, down to the 5 lug 12" tom)
It was also 40 degrees out with wind whipping and I probably didn't give it the full attention it deserved, but still...not even close.

Buy one, you'll like it!

Having previously experienced Ron's enthusiasms (and my own, for that matter), I'll postpone accepting closure on the issue.

But the acoustical truth is: with the removal of a sonic mask, the next layer of nuance is revealed. When moving from a washy ride to a flat ride, the finer aspects of quiet playing come to the fore. I'm sure it's true of the bass.

I use the slave pedal to dampen the 22. While I know that's not the same thing as playing an open 18, it does have the effect of calling attention both to the upper end of the kit and to the individual beats of the bass. An open 22 is great for more sparse playing, since the bass note bridges empty spaces. It is also good for playing bass grooves. As playing becomes more active - or less of a solid groove - the less long-sustain bass becomes desirable.

I have been looking for an 18 for quite a while, but I am not in much of a rush. I have learned (usually) to restrain my right foot from its annoying habit of repetitious groove playing... when that is not desirable. I love the ability to play quick damped notes, and then to end them with a wide open Booooom. It reminds me of watching a movie, at the New York World's Fair (whenever that was) - taken from an airplane, camera pointed at the ground. The ground is quite close, but suddenly the plane flies over... what? the edge of the Grand Canyon? Everyone in the theater gasped and groaned at the visual and psychic drop. That's what opening the 22 sounds like. Basso profundo.

Of course, all of this is just fun and games while playing solo. It's in the music that the drum has to work. I'm not planning on getting rid of a 22, but am still looking for an 18 for specific circumstances.

By the way, Goki, I have a sample of a Classix bop kit played by a fairly competent player, if you'd like to listen to it. Send me your email and I'll ship it to you. The reason I suggest it is, if you end up with the Classix kit, the possibility of adding an 18 bass remains viable and will for the foreseeable future.

Cheers!

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Gregory

Tim, I couldn't agree more! When I started kicking the 18", my jaw almost hit the floor. The thing I've noticed about most high-end Sonor drums is that they just sound...bigger than their size would indicate, I guess. I have a 14" ML Designer that sounds huge, when tuned the right way.



Goki, I'll be using the drum completely for recording purposes, so luckily I won't have to worry about it in live situations. My plan is to switch between the 18 and 22, depending on what I'm shooting for.


I thought about a 16" deep kick too. But that 18" sounded absolutely perfect, so I'll probably go with that depth. But I have a little bit before I order, so I may change my mind

It will only be set in stone, when I put in the order! But, lately,I really looked at what exactly I'm trying to achieve and it clarified things for me an awful lot.
Ordering my snare drum(back in June) was a comedy of errors, though!!

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Ron- A.K.A "The Frenetic Rah Rah Guy"

Yeah, I heard one Greg, a sample I mean... VERY nice... The toms and snare are fantastic too...

Thank You...


Yup, an 18" bd is always a good choice in a current production line... Wish I'd seen this before it sold:
http://www.cymbalsonly.com/sonor/xroot.htm

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Goki - short from Goran

Let the good drums roll!!!

Tony sold those kits a long time ago, so don't feel bad. Great thing about buying an 18 bass while it's still in production is, it's cheaper than a 22!

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Gregory

And an 18" floor tom is even cheaper....
But that's Ebenezer Scrooge thinking...

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Goki - short from Goran

Let the good drums roll!!!