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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:42 am 
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I would go 5" off center, 6 is big I think.
Take Greg's suggestions to heart as well, but I think you'll like the sound a lot better.
I never used that much muffling either, just a touch when you need it.
Good luck!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:24 am 
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Goki wrote:
I bury the batter - that's true, Greg - I can't do better with the Signature peal i use (unless I rearrange everything with the pedal)...
I tried the Coated Ambassador once - too thin for my taste. But - I also hate clear batter heads on bass drums (although almost all of my drums had those :oops: )

The bass sounded great when he played it, upfront - but he was more focused on the toms, I must say...
When I play the bass without the band - the air inside makes an extra movement that rattles everything...
With the band - it's a bit better but when Marta and me do a solo piece...problem...


The Signature pedal is slow, but that's its only real drawback. Not sure why it should cause you to bury the beater. But perhaps buried beater is what you like, and I'm not contesting that. What I was asking was: How is your bass technique (stroke) different from a technique that sounded great to you?

Can you say more about "rattles everything"? Rattles are hard bits knocking against each other, and I assume that isn't what's happening, but if you are getting flapping head noise, it may sound like rattling. Have you tried tuning the bass heads up?

This is a difficult conversation but one probably worth having. The hole-and-laundry solution, for me, is the last choice, the I've-given-up-all-other-options-and-now-it's-time-to-murder-the-drum option. I realize that many astute drummers do precisely that, but I guess they're trying for something - or are in a musical situation- that I'm not.

FIberskyn is quite different than a clear or coated Amb weight head; it has considerably more damping. I use it on both Classix and Designer, with felt on the Classix to reduce stray resonance a bit. Not sure if that was a tuning flaw of mine when I set it up, but I like its sound so well I have never tried removing the felt and retuning.

As a general rule, Evans heads on Classix bass have a brighter, more attack heavy characteristic than Remo, and so augment the brittle, attack heavy characteristic Classix already have. Remo will give you a softer impact (though still very articulate) and more warmth. On the Classix toms, I find Evans coated to be fine, but coated Remos would be an interesting shift - never tried 'em.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:10 am 
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Gregory wrote:
As a general rule, Evans heads on Classix bass have a brighter, more attack heavy characteristic than Remo, and so augment the brittle, attack heavy characteristic Classix already have. Remo will give you a softer impact (though still very articulate) and more warmth. On the Classix toms, I find Evans coated to be fine, but coated Remos would be an interesting shift - never tried 'em.


I can agree with Gregory here, from my experience with the Designers and my little bit with the Classix. I think Evans are a little brighter on both of them, from what I can tell. I don't know if its feasible for you to try, but Aquarians seem to be just a tad bit darker. The differences are subtle, but for whatever reason I heard some...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:29 am 
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Gregory wrote:
The Signature pedal is slow, but that's its only real drawback. Not sure why it should cause you to bury the beater. But perhaps buried beater is what you like, and I'm not contesting that. What I was asking was: How is your bass technique (stroke) different from a technique that sounded great to you?

The pedal release is stiff (if You understand what I mean). So, it feels a bit weird (unlike the Force3000 pedals).

Gregory wrote:
Can you say more about "rattles everything"? Rattles are hard bits knocking against each other, and I assume that isn't what's happening, but if you are getting flapping head noise, it may sound like rattling. Have you tried tuning the bass heads up?


Yup - FLAPPING is the word I'm after... I've tried tuning the head... When I tune it real good, I have a lot of air movement inside, hence the flapping...

Gregory wrote:
This is a difficult conversation but one probably worth having. The hole-and-laundry solution, for me, is the last choice, the I've-given-up-all-other-options-and-now-it's-time-to-murder-the-drum option. I realize that many astute drummers do precisely that, but I guess they're trying for something - or are in a musical situation- that I'm not.


I know Gregory - I don't want to cut - not yet. I'd rather stick a pillow inside, for the time being...
Back here, I have only Coated Ambassadors... Fiberskyn is a mistery... :lol:
The only reason I liked the Powersonic was the pillow...
I would like a Coated REMO head on the batter, that will do the trick... Why didn't they sell them with 2 Coated PS3?!? :cry:

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:21 pm 
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Responses within your quote, in RED>

Goki wrote:
Gregory wrote:
The Signature pedal is slow, but that's its only real drawback. Not sure why it should cause you to bury the beater. But perhaps buried beater is what you like, and I'm not contesting that. What I was asking was: How is your bass technique (stroke) different from a technique that sounded great to you?

The pedal release is stiff (if You understand what I mean). So, it feels a bit weird (unlike the Force3000 pedals).

I don't recall any stiffness of pedal return. Have you oiled all bearing surfaces and joints on the pedal?

Gregory wrote:
Can you say more about "rattles everything"? Rattles are hard bits knocking against each other, and I assume that isn't what's happening, but if you are getting flapping head noise, it may sound like rattling. Have you tried tuning the bass heads up?


Yup - FLAPPING is the word I'm after... I've tried tuning the head... When I tune it real good, I have a lot of air movement inside, hence the flapping...

"When I tune it real good..." Does that mean when the drum is tuned up tighter?

Gregory wrote:
This is a difficult conversation but one probably worth having. The hole-and-laundry solution, for me, is the last choice, the I've-given-up-all-other-options-and-now-it's-time-to-murder-the-drum option. I realize that many astute drummers do precisely that, but I guess they're trying for something - or are in a musical situation- that I'm not.


I know Gregory - I don't want to cut - not yet. I'd rather stick a pillow inside, for the time being...
Back here, I have only Coated Ambassadors... Fiberskyn is a mistery... :lol:
The only reason I liked the Powersonic was the pillow...
I would like a Coated REMO head on the batter, that will do the trick... Why didn't they sell them with 2 Coated PS3?!? :cry:


Oh my goodness! You mean yours came with an Ambassador reso? To my knowledge, all Classix basses came with a pair of PS3, batter and reso. Now I begin to understand your problem - and why I didn't. A felt strip will help that problem greatly. Try that first. Then, if still not happy, you can use pillows on the outside of the drum to decipher an improvement in damping the head. Laundry inside the drum will affect the resonance within the air column, and that's a whole different topic.

It is my experience, and Cliff (I think you like his Designer and Signature recorded sounds) corroborates, that the Fiberskyn Amb weight is a great jazz type head. I find it equally good on Classix, with just the right mix of tone and resonance. On Classix, I needed a felt strip loosely applied. Can you beg or borrow one from another part of the world? The PS3 is an admirable batter head on Classix, giving punch and some tone, but keeping the resonance under control. I've never tried an Ambassador batter.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:59 am 
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Gregory - the S Classix came with a PS3 reso (coated) and clear (batter).
The drum store offers only Ambassador coated heads (no Fyberskin/PS3/other)...

I have a felt strip, and I tried using it - no good results... When the drum is nicely tuned (a bit high), the air movement inside makes the batter head flap, and I can't seem to stop that. The vibration that comes from the batter side is ok... That's why I think coated PS3 on both sides will do the trick...


I'll oil the bass drum pedal - but it looks like I'll end up selling it - so if You know someone that gets rid of his giant step, let me know...

More testing later today - finally some drum action... :D :D :lol: :D :D :lol: :D :D

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:59 am 
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I put an EQ1 Evans batter on my SClassix today ;) , heaps better than the plastic like slap you get from the PS3 Clr.
Can't stand those heads, they get marginally better as they get older, but then, they become too flat sounding :evil:.

Against my will, I put some cloth inside the shell, about 16in square Ufip cymbal bag, scrunched up.
This had instant pleasant results, a little drier than I like, but nice and full.
Most Live sound engineers have had a little trouble with the lengthy sustain of the my SClassix kick when I have no muffling.

I haven't nailed mine yet, but I'm enjoying the quest :roll: :lol: .

Cheers

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:25 am 
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I would love it if you both could try an EQ1 reso. The head is a stroke of genius. I can't see it not complimenting just about any batter head.

Amen Jeff. It's work...but so rewarding.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:05 am 
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Goki wrote:
Gregory - the S Classix came with a PS3 reso (coated) and clear (batter).
The drum store offers only Ambassador coated heads (no Fyberskin/PS3/other)...

I


:? Perhaps the store sold its only PS3.... :? ... :o Wait... you mean the batter is a clear PS3?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:56 am 
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Kelly wrote:
I would love it if you both could try an EQ1 reso. The head is a stroke of genius. I can't see it not complimenting just about any batter head.
.


Well... :| I've tried that head, on Signature, Classix and Designer maple. I still have at least one, in its box, on the shelf.

A head is not a head, if you will, any more than a drum is a drum. Rather, it is a collection, within brackets, of expectation, tuning and technique. I am struggling to understand Goki's particular matrix, in relation to what I know about Classix, in light of his enthusiasm for Designers, and informed by his response to his friend's playing. I confess that I still don't understand, but I'm working on it. 8-)

Looking forward to your next report, Goki! :)

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