On drums...

I struggled with mine (although I don't recall the 14 ever being a particular problem), until Cliff posted his particular tuning approach. Classix, more than any kit I've ever played, want to be in tune with each other. When they're not, one drum or another always seems reedy. When they are, the fullness is grand and the projection startling.

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Gregory

Thank You Kelly,
That's more or less the sound I get from the bass drum at the moment...
Marta says the bass drum sounds great for the listener - very open and live... So, I'll take that as a good sign...

Now, about the floor tom Gregory - I'll think I'll check out the Emperors on there, just to make sure what I'm getting/missing...
Cliff's suggestion is right on the spot - they do want to be in tune with each other... I don't mind the tone, I'm having trouble with getting the low end as I imagine.
When I play softly, the sound is phenomenal. The 14" only makes trouble when I hit harder...

Now - pictures, as promised - sorry for the quality...

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Goki - short from Goran

Let the good drums roll!!!

Lovely kit!

Goki, trust in that sound. It is a difficult shift to make- at least it was for me - going from a closed sound to one that's more open. That's why I was recommending having faith in the effect of that drum as it mixes with the other instruments and as that sound projects to the audience. We are so governed by recorded music that it is hard for us to hear live music with a un-jaundiced ear.

Don't tune that 14 too low, Goki. I tuned my 16 as low as it would go, and then came to realize that it didn't project at all. A step or two above the lowest tuning is ideal, and you can tell when you get there, because it begins to sound off. And since tone is relative, the relative drop from the 12 to 14 is all your audience will hear, not the ideal low in your mind.

One thing I know you can't hear from your chair, Goki, and that is the impact of those drums. In front of them, they create a physical impact that isn't felt by the drummer.

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Gregory

Okay then.
Actually, his kick sounds fantastic but...it's not for me either. I really think you were on the right track in the beginning. Gotta let some air out of that bad boy. Really wish you could try the evans reso.

Greg has great points too. Coming off a Hilite kick, give it some time, experiment. At least you know how to get that sound again if you ever wanted it.

We are all cheering for ya brother. Kit looks fantastic.

The discussion of EQ1 perplexes me. The main difference I've noted in PS3 to EQ1 is a slightly warmer, softer sound from PS3 on the Classix bass.

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Gregory

He doesn't like the "boom" he's getting. He called it "uncontrolled" I believe.
Letting a little air out tames the boom. The small vent holes in the eq1 is a great compromise. Doesn't flatten the drum like a 4 or 6 inch hole would or at least too much one way for him.

Hey Goki,

I have been watching with interest, but have not felt like I had much to add, since (i) I have never owned or played S Classix, and, (ii) except for visits with Kelly, I never play a 22” kick.

All I can add is to revisit some issues already raised, and to state the obvious on a few other issues:

• Always a bit of difference between ‘behind the kit’ and ‘out front’ sound. You liked the kick when your friend was playing it. Was it a difference in (i) playing style, or, (ii) listening position?
• It’s a 22”, and maybe the most ‘live’ 22” you have ever owned. With my particular issues with beater control, the contrast between the sound of pulling the beater and burying the beater 22” has always been too much, and that is the primary reason I have never used anything larger than a 20”, and why, now that I can get away with less volume, I am using 18”s more often.
• I think that we adjust to things without even realizing it. 22” kicks may be part of the cause for developing a ‘burying’ habit – a subconscious muting mechanism. This kick is more live than your HiLite, and your previous ‘muting’ may not be enough for the S Classix.
• Sounds like your pedal has a bit of a sticking spot in it. I don’t know exactly what that is, but that can cause unusual, subconscious adjustment to playing as well.
• The only real description I have heard, so far, of your desired outcome is in relation to a recorded sound (Steve Gadd sound). That may not be a realistic benchmark for an ambient sound.

Suggestions:

• Decide where you want to evaluate the drum sound from, and figure out how to best do that. You may need either (i) someone who plays like you, so you can listen to them out front, or, (ii) better yet, someone whose ears you trust to listen to them out front while you play them.
• Eliminate the issues that need to be fixed anyway, to take them out of the equation. If the pedal can be adjusted or repaired, do it. It not, you know what you gotta do. Can’t expect controlled sound from an uncontrollable pedal.
• I don’t agree with the idea that porting is a solution – it may be just confirmation of the problem. Porting simply reduces the efficiency of the resonant head by decreasing the amount of pressure transfer to it, hence the amount of air it moves. Translation – lower volume. Porting a head (for ambient sound) on a large drum is like digging a hole so that you can use your ladder. The ‘problem’ we may be trying to solve is how to make the kick sound smaller. I know the answer to that question.

I would go slow, and make gradual changes, at minimal cost, if possible. Maybe you could try making a circumferential pattern of small holes in the reso head (around 1” from the roll-off of the head), effectively turning it into an EQ1. That amount of pressure relief may significantly change sound and pedal feel.

Longer term, if it were me, I would consider either (i) looking for a chance to trade the 22” for a 20”, or, (ii) saving for an 18”, while they are still in production. It would be pretty sweet to have a 18" and 22" option in the same kit!

Man, they look great!

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?

Beautiful kit Goki, .
Is your issue that you are NOT used to playing an un-ported kick.
With Unported kicks you get a very different feel from the batter head. Not sure if this topic was covered

Cheers

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Jeff
Gots ta luv da Beech
Australia

True that Jeff.

We wait as the mad scientist is working in the lab.
Confident he'll be raving about that kick soon.

Cliff....just some notes. He has been using a 22. I don't know how he had that one setup. I am quite confident though that the SClassix kick will be a very different sounding animal.
I have not owned an SClassix kit either but I put it in a similar basic catagory as an SClass Pro 22 x 17.5. They are big sounding drums. A lot more open sounding than a Hilite. Not to mention his is birch. I know what I would get on it with unported heads.
Porting the head will be perceived as lower volume from the chair but focus/direct the air out the front of the kick.

I agree though, a smaller kick would certaintly lessen the effect. I would still be porting it somehow though.
I found the eq1 to be the best of both worlds in the amount of air it vents.

More side notes: I have become a diehard 20 guy. 20 x 18 in particular. Here at the house.
I just signed up for a steady paying job in a very big room completely carpeted. I have concerns now as I will be unmic'd at least in the beginning. The room gets pretty packed, will absorb even more sound. Might be going back to a 22 for a bit.

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?