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 Post subject: DrumDial - Day One
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:14 am 
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Location: Skopje, Republic Of Macedonia
What numbers should I go with?!?

I'll use the DrumDial on the Gretsch Catalina Bop set:
18"x14" bass drum
12"x08" tom
14"x14" floor tom
Coated Emperors on top
Clear Ambassadors on bottom


and on my S Classix 14"x05" snare...
Coated Ambassador on top
Clear Ambassador on bottom

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Goki - short from Goran :)

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 Post subject: Re: DrumDial - Day One
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:24 am 
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Should I go with the numbers inside the DrumDial manual?!?

http://www.drumdial.com/drummer.htm

What do You guys think?!?

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 Post subject: Re: DrumDial - Day One
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:02 am 
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Location: Wisconsin, USA
Goki wrote:
Should I go with the numbers inside the DrumDial manual?!?

http://www.drumdial.com/drummer.htm

What do You guys think?!?

Since all my toms are tuned between 70 and 75, those numbers in the guide look a bit high to me. You have Cliff's numbers, I'm assuming, but if you're tuning to different steps you will first need to ascertain what steps you want, and then discover what those numbers are on the Dial. If you haven't found Cliff's tuning for a four tom setup, I'm taking the liberty of posting it here.

cliff wrote:

Below is an excerpt from a post I had put on the Sonormuseum a while back that describes the tuning process I use, and the DD readings that result with my Designers:

“What I can tell you off the top of my head is that I use four toms and they are tuned as follows:

• 16x16 – tuned to C – 70.5 reading top and bottom
• 14x14 – tuned to G – 74 reading top and bottom
• 12x10 – tuned to C – 75 reading top and bottom
• 8x8 – tuned to G – 74 reading top and bottom

Since I am using same batter and reso on both, here is how I approached tuning them.

1. Remove both heads.
2. Install, seat and back off the batter head.
3. Using just the batter head, find the tuning range of the drum, from lowest (first resonates) to highest (begins to choke). Make a note of the range (both pitch and DD readings)
4. Repeat for all toms.
5. Find a logical set of intervals for the drums, preferably within a major scale. I deliberately use only four drums and two pitches, so that relationship of any drum to any other drum is that of a fourth, fifth or octave (the fourth being an inversion of a fifth; e.g. c-g / g-c)
6. Once you have chosen the interval pattern that to use, tune each batter to the targeted pitch; note the DD reading.
7. Install and seat the reso; back off and tune up to same DD reading. The pitch will now be higher than the target pitch you started with!
8. Back off both heads in small but equal increments and tune up until equally tensioned at the target pitch. Use a soft mallet to eliminate the false impression from the ‘attack’, and strike dead center.

What you will end up with is equally and evenly tensioned batter and reso, and all the drums in the interval pattern you have chosen. It will be the most open sound you can get, and there will be no pitch-bending in the resonance.

I prefer just the intervals I mentioned so the virtually every drum combination is a root/fifth, root/fourth (by inversion), or an octave – essentially a chord. This way all combinations work together, and don’t sound ‘thin’ or dissonant.

A lot of ideas here; I hope it is presented logically and makes sense.
There may be minor variations attributable to DD calibration.

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 Post subject: Re: DrumDial - Day One
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:31 pm 
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Thanx for the advice Greg - I'll test this Tuesday/Wednesday...

Unfortunately - other things "took" my afternoon... :cry:

The snare will be tested first... Then the Catalina toms...

I must say - Cliff's method is VERY THOROUGH...

WOW...

Boy oh boy - I'm really looking forward to this... :D

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 Post subject: Re: DrumDial - Day One
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:50 pm 
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The Cliff settings won't work on all drums. When I tried to tune my 8" and 16" toms to what Clifford does, the sound was very dead. I think shell thickness will affect the numbers on the DD.


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 Post subject: Re: DrumDial - Day One
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:56 pm 
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stevesmithfan wrote:
The Cliff settings won't work on all drums. When I tried to tune my 8" and 16" toms to what Clifford does, the sound was very dead. I think shell thickness will affect the numbers on the DD.


Shell thickness won't affect the numbers on the dial, if I understand you aright; but there's no reason to assume that all 16's (for instance) will tune well to 70.5 using a medium weight single ply head. Which is why #3.

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 Post subject: Re: DrumDial - Day One
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:04 am 
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Gregory wrote:
stevesmithfan wrote:
The Cliff settings won't work on all drums. When I tried to tune my 8" and 16" toms to what Clifford does, the sound was very dead. I think shell thickness will affect the numbers on the DD.


Shell thickness won't affect the numbers on the dial, if I understand you aright; but there's no reason to assume that all 16's (for instance) will tune well to 70.5 using a medium weight single ply head. Which is why #3.

Exactly right, Greg(s).

70.5 may be outside of the tuning range of some drums, but may work for others, and this may be attributable to thickness and/or shell material. Finding the shell's range first, as in step three is important.

Will depend on the head also. As the DD is a durometer, a 70.5 setting that works on a clear G1 would be marginal on even a coated head, and probably unworkakable on a thicker single ply or a two ply head.

The process is more important than the particular numbers that work for me.

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River City Trio

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 Post subject: Re: DrumDial - Day One
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:00 am 
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Yep, best bet is to tune your drums how you like them and then use the DD to record the measurements for future reference. Settings will change if you change the layup or manufacture of the heads.

That said, I play coated G2 over clear Ambassadors, typically, my batters are around 72 and resos around 75 on a 10" or 12" tom. The tension creeps up slightly as the drums get bigger, my 16" floor is around 74/77.

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 Post subject: Re: DrumDial - Day One
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:20 pm 
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Location: Skopje, Republic Of Macedonia
I'm in the process of doing that guys... I'm slowly increasing the numbers (from what Cliff gave me as a reference)...

When I have the right combination - I'll store that... :)

Funny, but on the 08"x12" Catalina tom the numbers are:
TOP Coated Emperor - 80 (sounds it can go higher)
BOTTOM Clear Ambassador - 78

The 14"x14" floor tom is 75 top and bottom and I like that... :)


More tests to be done this Saturday (if no gig comes up)... :D

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Goki - short from Goran :)

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 Post subject: Re: DrumDial - Day One
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Location: Skopje, Republic Of Macedonia
Well, I've used the DrumDial on the S Classix and it works like a charm:

10" tom is tuned a bit higher - 77 top and bottom
12" tom is perfect at 75
14" floor tom is a bit high (but nice) at 74

I'm using Coated Emperors on top and Clear Ambassadors (with SONOR logo) on bottom

The sound is beautiful...



Thank You Gregory and Cliff :D :D :D

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Goki - short from Goran :)

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