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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:08 pm 
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Kelly wrote:
Have at it Ron.

The woman she goes to the gym with says she sits in on these Medical boards with her husband and says it's the majority of the doctors that are seeing it as a bad thing for them.

Then I'd say, "Screw the greedy sods!"

You can bet Big Insurance and Big Pharma are celebrating, so, that's good for everybody, right? :roll: :lol:

I said I'd post no more on this thread but... so much for self-control!

Ron


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:51 pm 
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I am not sure that I understand the issue under some form of discussion here. Is there a presumption that medical care is somehow better delivered when it is imagined to be free of participation in economic reality?

The notion that talent and capital would continue to flow into medicine without hope of return on investment (profit), is as silly as the idea that entities (individuals or businesses) would continue to generate profits if they were to be consumed by progressive tax structures.

I’ll accept Ron’s word that he knows doctors who “…strongly advocate Single Payer and look with favor on Western European health care systems…”

I would also venture that these doctors may be Ron’s peers in age, have done well for themselves in the capitalist system, and now believe that their profession (sans them) ought to transform itself into a not-for-profit model, while they head off to well-funded retirement.

Maybe the only difference between Ron’s doctor acquaintances and Kelly’s doctor acquaintances is (i) stage of their careers, (ii) whose earning potential they are willing to give away.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:32 am 
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Nice try Cliff.
However, no... the docs I refer to are in their 50s.
I don't see any MDs my age... they've all retired to enjoy a life of affluent leisure. ;) :lol:

Upon attaining my age, if one is lucky and/or smart, one's MDs, attorney, accountant, as well as most of the musicians one plays with should be younger than oneself. I'm lucky in that regard.
I don't begrudge Docs, nurses and technicians or other health care professionals... it's the obscene profits of Big Pharma and the unnecessary costs generated by Big Insurance I object to.

What I find really silly is invoking the discredited canard that progressive tax structures demotivate businesses or individuals.

The notion that people who have attained a degree of affluence, whether through talent and hard work (I myself am one such) or inheritance are entitled to additional gain at the expense of an ever growing underclass being begrudged their modicum of security is repugnant to me.
That my friend is SOCIALISM FOR THE RICH!

I'm for UNIVERSAL SOCIALISM.

Ron


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:57 am 
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I am not for UNIVERSAL SOCIALISM, but I dont believe that should be a constraint upon you.

Commitment is found in actions.

Perhaps each time you come across an individual with less net worth than you, for whatever reason, you could split your net worth with them, on the condition that they do the same, going forward.

If you believe that the medical care system can operate independently of economic realities, then surely you can launch a successful socialism on your own.
:?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:52 pm 
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Cliff,
I won't take the bait of your sarcastic non sequiturs. They're unworthy of a serious response.

As you, Kelly and Greg apparently are so disapproving of the health care bill, for reasons different from mine, I would recommend this for your consideration.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/opini ... ef=opinion.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:48 pm 
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I never said I was disapproving Ron.
Honestly...I know nothing about it. And honestly, I have too many other more pressing issues on my plate to worry about it, care about it or put any serious thought or time into it.
I also won't take the time to research it. Like everything else internet, Television, Newspapers...there are 3 sides to every story.
I only stated what some people who might be a little closer to the issue than myself had to say about it. Doesn't mean I believe that either.
Apart from sitting down with some expert on it or Obama himself, I'll consider myself ignorant on the topic.
I personally like reading someones strong opinions mainly because I admire that they have one at all.
Always informative one way or another.
You haven't ruffled my feathers at all....hell I don't even care what I think. Too many small fish for me to fry to even think about whale hunting.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Royal ace wrote:

Actually, it's more properly, 'murcan', as in, "That socialist, commie, fascist, Muslim in the White House is out to destroy our GOD GIVEN MURCAN WAY!
The great historian of the United States, Gore Vidal, uses the term, "United Statesers", sardonically to point out the mindless, solipsistic chauvinism endemic to the U.S.A., where most people use "America" and "American" as if the U.S.A. were the only country in a tri-continental hemisphere of many other countries... as if it were the only country of any account. :roll:




One can use reason as long as the foundational axioms are the same. While I'm sure that the above statement plays well in certain intellectual environments, to me it seems mythical and facile. And so we can surmise, assuming intelligence, that our axioms have divided somewhere.

When Gore Vidal is cited as a "great historian" of any sort, it must be taken into account that the axiom accepted is the view of American culture as essentially non-existent (or just wretched) and therefor deserving of any idea the "enlightened" mind may wish to impose upon it.

Since Gore Vidal (of whose books I have read and enjoyed several) is a left-wing Eurpophile playwright, author and essayist with a deep disdain for America, he would not be one to whom I would turn to understand the American culture, unless the way in which I wished to understand it was through the wrong end of a mocking telescope.


Quote:
The notion that people who have attained a degree of affluence, whether through talent and hard work (I myself am one such) or inheritance are entitled to additional gain at the expense of an ever growing underclass being begrudged their modicum of security is repugnant to me.


Don't personally know anyone who would disagree with that statement.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:24 pm 
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But hey, this is a drum forum. Given the wasted time being expended on this topic, it would seem to me to be a good idea to desert it now, unless... someone feels that he can make a difference by repeating his opinion more vociferously. :o :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Gregory wrote:
But hey, this is a drum forum. Given the wasted time being expended on this topic, it would seem to me to be a good idea to desert it now, unless... someone feels that he can make a difference by repeating his opinion more vociferously. :o :lol: :lol:

Greg, Amen to that,I say... but hey, you started the thread! :lol:

Greg, as to whether Vidal has deep distain for... not 'America', but the USA... I think it's the turn towards imperialism-cum-fascism the country has taken post WW2 as he sees it that has him deeply upset. He has amply demonstrated his knowledge and grasp of recent events in order to make a convincing argument as to the profound betrayal of what had been our country's political traditions and conduct vis-a-vis the rest of the world, at least to my mind.
Btw, he has come back to L.A. to live out his last years, as you may know.

Pinter comes to mind also in this context. He was reviled by the US 'MSM' as an unhinged 'America' hater in a desperate attempt to discredit him for his eloquent, impassioned Nobel speech a few years ago, in which he enumerated some of the worst and ongoing offenses inflicted on the world by the US govt. since WW2.

I realize I've thrown some more contentious stuff at ya'll, but I'll be perfectly content if nobody picks it up from here.

Ron


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:37 pm 
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This section is "other than drums".
Recalling the "rule of civility" I think this topic is fine here and most likely any other.


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