On drums...

I have seen two or three different quotes on the museum forum from guys loving Signature bop size kits for jazz, the most recent excerpted below:

"...Tuned high for bop, the toms sinply explode while being the easiest to play, wildly sensitive and insanely musical. So many colors and tones when you hit the drums near the edge or use rims shots. I am in Jack D heaven..."

Another guy over there recently sold a Designer bop kit to acquire a Signature kit in bop sizes, explaining that the Signatures were far superior, per his tastes.

Dunno. I have Signatures and Designers in bop sizes (including having cut down the Signature 12x12 to a 12x10), and even tuned moderately high, I don't find the Signatures to have the tonal variety of the Designers.

To my ears, the Signatures remain true to their designed character, and will always produce a much more fundamental oriented tone, and as expected, remain very controllable for close mic playing and recording but have never offered the tonal versatility of Designers in the same sizes.

From previous recordings, the comparison below is with identical sizes, identical tuning, same room, same player, same recording set-up.

- Signatures
- Designers

I find value in both, but I wouldn't prefer Signatures over Designers for a jazz kit, at least in this tuning range, and haven't found anything I like better from the Signatues when tuned much higher.

_________________
Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?

Depends what you want, I guess. While it certainly is possible that Sig monochromatic sound is what a guy is looking for, and while it is way too easy to misread another person's heart, it seems more likely to me that the superman quality of the Signature is the guiding force and the sound follows along; and since the sound is unique, why not say it is the best? With the exception of the 18" floor tom, I never was all that wild about the sonic qualities my Signature kit, and now that I've had a look around I know why not. Still, they're cool, but if I had to chose from the bracket I'd take a Phonic bop in part because of sizes, in part because of that bass drum.

_________________
Gregory

Well put Greg.

"I have to have a Signature kit because they have the "it" factor. I'll make the sound work for me...somehow".
And of course it will be the "it' sound.

Tuning Signature drums up very high, out of their fundemental range they were designed for begs the question "why have them". At least that's what I would be asking myself.
Next they will move to Lites and that will be the new "it" sound.

I just reread my comment here. I think I have anger issues lmao.

Hey, Cliff. Finally got around to listening to these two files, and here's my response: The Signatures sound great, but nowhere near as open and alive as the Designers. If that weren't enough (for jazz I would have thought it would be), I know that you are close miking your drums, and as such the difference between them is equalized: the Signatures are at their best, while the Designers lose all that fat shimmer in the room.

Knowing where "Jack D" went after his round with Signatures, I'd have thought that his version of heaven would be found in closer proximity to the orbit of HiLites or Designers, but maybe Jack got confused somewhere.

Noted that your playing style is different from one kit to the other. The Designer clip is characterized by quicker sticking patterns. I know you cut down your 12 to speed things up, but is the speed differential still true between the two kits? One thing I know about Signatures is that they are slow to respond, which would seem to me to be a drawback in jazz or swing performance, but I'm not certain, when looking back at my twenty years with Signatures, whether their slowness was more a function of the tuning, heads, and sizes of my kit.

Nice playing, and thanks for posting the files.

_________________
Gregory

_________________
Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?