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 Post subject: Re: FIBERSKYN
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:59 pm 
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Gregory wrote:
cliff wrote:


Sounds like you may need heads that excite less easily, and that sounds like a thicker, heavier head.

Why not try an Evans G12 or G14 setup, and go coated if you think you need more natural damping.


But thicker, heavier heads, once excited, will stay that way for a longer time, no?

Probably yes, but you won't get them there as easily.

If you do, it will be because the dynamics around you have risen to that level.

I think I always want the full range of response and sustain available; it is a matter of how to match this range to the volume curve.

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 Post subject: Re: FIBERSKYN
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:13 am 
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:lol:
What a tool I am!! 32?!?! I meant 72!
I tune my snares with the Evans torque key to 32!

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 Post subject: Re: FIBERSKYN
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:28 am 
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When you still had the Bot, what note did 72 produce? I can't find where you mentioned what batter you are using; that would also be helpful information.

While an old reso does lose some ability to vibrate, I have not found that was ever at the heart of any tuning problem. Not to suggest you don't replace it; I would, but my 13 is still carrying its 16 year old reso and it sounds good to me.

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 Post subject: Re: FIBERSKYN
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:20 am 
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I think 72 is pretty low for that drum, Ron. If our DDs are giving identical readings, my 12 really takes off at 74 top and bottom, using single ply heads. Unbelievable resonance!

I tuned my reso to 74 tonight, and the batter to 76, a split of about a third in note. The volume is much more controllable and the overall tone pleasing to my ear.

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 Post subject: Re: FIBERSKYN
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:31 am 
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Greg,
Your not going to believe me here but last night I spent some time with my BI kit at home and found that 74 on the batter and 76 on the reso pleasing to my ear! I'm interested to hear why you tune your reso lower than your batter head actually. I was always told reso was to be a little tighter than the batter and then others saying both heads equal. I know it's personal preference at the end of the day but I am aware there is some physics involved. Out of interest I am going to tune my designers on Thursday to your tunings Greg and will get back to you with my findings. I have been tuning my drums lower and lower as I have progressed in my drumming life but perhaps I have been tuning my drums so low the overall drum has not been resonating properly anymore. I find tuning my designers a pain in the ass actually as I don't like slotted rods and external tune safes. Now and again some of the external tune safe plastic parts spin with the rod they are gripping so tight and I have to try and grip it with my fingers while loosening the rod! No wonder they stopped producing drums with this system! I've never enjoyed changing heads on that kit.

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 Post subject: Re: FIBERSKYN
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 1:47 pm 
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I haven't noticed that much difference whether reso or batter is tuned the higher. The reason I cranked up the batter is 1) because somewhere I read "Tune the batter for feel, the reso for tone," and 2) because that is the head that gets tuned up when playing live and I was happy enough with the result, 3) I like the batter on the 12 to be tight rather than loose, and 4) back when I played Signatures, I always tuned all batters a fourth above their respective resos, and thought it might work on this 12. (My Signature tuning is another story and rather eccentric, I think: three toms, 14/16/18, all tuned a fourth apart, reso’s of the smaller drum tuned to the same pitch as the batter of the next larger.)

I'll be interested to hear your response to the inverted tuning. You mention tuning lower; I think it is very easy, in the search for low, to find a tuning that would work with close miking but not acoustically, because while it sounds a note, the note does not project.

                                          ***

As to the tunesafes on Designers: Is tuning stability a reasonable tradeoff for ease of tuning? I don't like chasing tuning around an expanded kit, so my answer to that question is ‘yes.’ But if the answer were ‘no’, one can just pop the tunesafes and be old-school again. 8-)

In my experience, the tunesafes always move with the rods to some degree, and require a reverse tweak of the key to seat. I just give the key that much more and then a reverse when fine tuning. Yes, it's a nuisance but it has become enough a habit that I don't notice all that much.

Changing heads is no problem at all, once you have a proper fitting for the slotted heads that will fit in a drill. Have something like that?


                                          ***

I love slotted rods! They do require a bit more awareness than square heads, because fitment of the key is half as frequent as it is on a square headed rod. In addition, I suspect that there is a fair amount of built in slop, so that the arc of the square key begins insertion long before the optimal position is reached. Slotted rods, by contrast, are made in that German fashion to be precise, and like most other precise German mechanisms I'm familiar with, they require that your head be screwed on your shoulders before using. :geek:

It is not my purpose to be the defender of something gone that will never come back, but I had Sonor square headed rods on my Classix and the key to rod fitment was the sloppiest of any kit I have ever owned. Even when I was being extra careful, the key would slip mid tuning. Drum keys are sort of notorious for falling but the Sonor square headed key has a junkie's attachment to the floor. A less important issue perhaps, but there is no way to leave a square Sonor key sitting on the drum while playing. If it doesn't fall it rattles. By contrast, the Link era key and rod arrangement almost never slips and almost never falls while tuning, and generally does not rattle. True, the human eye has to be engaged; orientation of the wings of the key are identical to the orientation of the slot, and once that is recognized and coordinated with the orientation of the slot of the screw, placement of the key is almost automatic :)

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 Post subject: Re: FIBERSKYN
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:58 pm 
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Ron, this is from the Drum Tuning Bible. My thinking was that since DD 74 produces such an overwhelmingly resonant tone, to use that setting (EDIT: on the reso for the reasons) suggested below. I also like to hear an initial high frequency from the 12, a sound that cuts. Don't want to create much drop, which can be cool but becomes distracting. A small amount of that is inevitable, because when a head is struck it effectively tightens up. I like being able to really hit the 12 and have it sound like a bullet went past your ear, but I don't want to sound like an Elton John recording all night long.


        ● Batter Head: The batter head controls the feel of the hit, initial pitch, the sound of the stick slap and the initial element of the drum sound or overtones. When the drum is hit, the ear hears mostly the attack and the fundamental pitch of the drum. Overtones emitted by the batter head are washed out at a distance, but aid in the overall projection.
        ● Resonant Head: Often underestimated for its contribution to the tone, it is mostly responsible for the pitch, lingering tone and pitch of that created as a result of striking the batter head and resonance of the shell. The resonant head produces “resonance” and aids in sustain, it has a major effect in the overtones and enhances the timbre of the drum. Generally you do not use anything other than single ply on the bottom, but there are exceptions.
        ● Tuning: As you tune the drum with one of either the batter head or resonant head higher or lower in tension and pitch, you go through “zones” producing one of clear pitch, phase cancellation (no life) or a “Doppler” sort of effect where the drum descends in pitch, also referred to as “pitch bend”. This becomes more pronounced when the resonant head is of a higher pitch than the batter.

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 Post subject: Re: FIBERSKYN
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:07 pm 
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I was just reminded by this post about what you had done.

No wonder you are having so much trouble with your 12" tom - you messed with the 'tuning post'. :o

Everyone knows that the post is a highly engineered solid state equalizer/gate/compressor.

May as well just hang it by a rope from the ceiling and hit it as it whizzes by your ear now.
:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: FIBERSKYN
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:40 am 
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cliff wrote:


May as well just hang it by a rope from the ceiling and hit it as it whizzes by your ear now.
:lol:


Good idea! How quickly does it reset?

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 Post subject: Re: FIBERSKYN
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:33 pm 
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cliff wrote:


No wonder you are having so much trouble with your 12" tom...

:lol:



So now it's just a matter of waiting for the badges to fall off to warm the kit up?

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