On drums...

For drummers to exchange knowledge, ideas, opinions & equipment...
It is currently Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:02 pm

Board index » Tuning & Technical

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 3 of 4
  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Jeff
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:00 am
Posts: 437
Tuned my 14x7.25 SonorLite snare with the DrumDial today. Looking for the 'Right' :roll: Drum for the Hard Rock/Blues band's recording.

Found something quite interesting :? . To put the drum in tune, I had to tension 2 bolts at a higher reading :shock: .
Granted, I didn't use a new head, or even reseat the existing head. Just checked the measurements where they were, backed the heads off, and started again.
Maybe a bent hoop, or the head was slightly pulled in this spot, but the PSI should indicate the correct tension anyway.Head is quite new, and should be fine.
You could clearly hear that the drum had a lower note at these points, when perfectly in-tune.
After freaking out, checking top/bottom heads, making sure wires are seated perfectly centre, I decided, Against my will :roll: , to do what I should have done in the beginning, and tweak those 2 bolts a little
A whole measure :o :shock: was needed, PERFECT :? ........

What gives, any ideas? :|

_________________
Jeff
Gots ta luv da Beech
Australia
Top
 Profile  
 
Gregory
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:59 am
Posts: 3591
Location: Wisconsin, USA
That's fairly typical, Jeff.

There may be variations in the thickness of the mylar, for instance, which will yield the same reading at a different pitch. Or there may be an issue where the head tucks into its own rim; who knows?

The settings are a marker, but the final tuning often has to be done by ear. Some new heads are more consistent than others, and some head manufacturers are more consistent about that than others.

Bent hoops, out of round drums, bad bearing surfaces are always to be considered, but are less likely to be the problem than heads with inconsistencies, whether as manufactured or as a result of use. One test would be to measure the head thickness, but most of us are content as along as the head can be tuned. :)

_________________
Gregory
Top
 Profile  
 
Jeff
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:00 am
Posts: 437
Thanks Gregory :D , I'm very happy with the drums sound, so, all is good ;)

Cheers

_________________
Jeff
Gots ta luv da Beech
Australia
Top
 Profile  
 
cliff
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 1607
A bit of expansion on Greg's thoughts:

A Drum Dial is nothing more than a durometer; What it really measures is how much the head deflects with a consistent amount of pressure applied. All else equal, stretching a membrane to where it deflects equally should mean equal tension, and make it vibrate at the same frequency (pitch).

If that does not work, then the assumption that 'all else is equal' may be where the problem is, and that usually means inconsistent head thickness.

If one area of the head is thicker than another, then it does not need to be stretched as tightly to resist deflection. You get the same Drum Dial reading, but it is not at the same tension, hence not the same pitch.

I did have the same problem once, and I marked the inconsistent area, removed the head, borrowed a deep jawed micrometer, measured, and confirmed that the head was indeed thicker there than elsewhere, as you would expect. Once confirmed, I cut the head up so that I could measure even further interior sections, and found more inconsistencies in thickness.

Long way to say that a Drum Dial doesn't really measure tension; it measures deflection, and if all else is equal, it implies tension, and by further extension, pitch.

Make sense?

_________________
Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?
Top
 Profile  
 
Kelly
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:48 am
Posts: 2255
Location: lordandkelly@comcast.net
Awesome Cliff. Completely understandable.
I, for one, am always greatful that you have "gone before me".
To the point where I'm just plain freaking lazy now.
Waiting for you to stop in. Once a year ain't so bad :)
Top
 Profile  
 
cliff
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 1607
Kelly wrote:
Awesome Cliff. Completely understandable.
I, for one, am always greatful that you have "gone before me".
To the point where I'm just plain freaking lazy now.
Waiting for you to stop in. Once a year ain't so bad :)

It is getting to that time of year again.

Teri and I just started talking about planning the annual pilgrimage.

This year I'll probably be bringing a 12/14/18/snare Signature kit.

Get the basement cleared out!

Looking forward to seeing all the Kelly family again. ;)

_________________
Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?
Top
 Profile  
 
cliff
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 1607
Kelly wrote:
Awesome Cliff. Completely understandable.
I, for one, am always greatful that you have "gone before me".
To the point where I'm just plain freaking lazy now.
Waiting for you to stop in. Once a year ain't so bad :)

It is getting to that time of year again.

Teri and I just started talking about planning the annual pilgrimage.

This year I'll probably be bringing a 12/14/18/snare Signature kit.

Get the basement cleared out!

Looking forward to seeing all the Kelly family again. ;)

_________________
Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?
Top
 Profile  
 
hihat
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:44 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Netherlands
Hi Cliff or any other DD-specialist,

I just read the "Cliff-"settings again and was wondering about tuning to certain notes.

My set is 8x10, 8x12, 14x14 and 16x6. How should the order be CGCG or GCGC?

_________________
Image SQ2Tigerwood, Steve Smith kit, SClassix scandi,Teardrop rosewood, Swinger blue ripple,snares: D505, D554, Steve Smith snares, SQ2 13x6.5 scandi, Benny Greb signature, Artist cottonwood, Lite
Top
 Profile  
 
Gregory
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:59 am
Posts: 3591
Location: Wisconsin, USA
hihat wrote:
Hi Cliff or any other DD-specialist,

I just read the "Cliff-"settings again and was wondering about tuning to certain notes.

My set is 8x10, 8x12, 14x14 and 16x6. How should the order be CGCG or GCGC?


Rob, are you asking because you have 10 high rather than the 8? I've never tuned the 10 into the kit, but in the four tom setup, two things take precedence on my kit: the 12 and 16. The two other drums merely need to be in pleasing tune with them. Not sure you can get down to a useable G below C on your 16, so you'd be coming up a fifth with your entire kit to begin with a G.

I'd try using Cliff's numbers (in part so you don't have to go through all that effort :lol: ), tuning the 10 to the G, but if that didn't work, tune it down into a note pleasing with the snare and the 12. Either that, or adjust the octave to some other note, like F or A.

Is that helpful? 8-)

_________________
Gregory
Top
 Profile  
 
cliff
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 1607
Yup,

Greg has it about right.

Mine are 16=C, 14=G, 12=C, 8=G, but G might be a bit of a stretch for a 10" diameter.

My intent is to end up where every drum is a fifth (C - G) or octave (C-C; G-G) apart, or a fifth by inversion (G-C; first inversion). This way, any two drums struck together are either a Root/Fifth chord, or an octave, and always sound full, never disonant (and thin).

It is why I use an 8" instead of a 10".

_________________
Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 3 of 4
  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Board index » Tuning & Technical

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group