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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:51 am 
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My personal view is that people have "mutated" in the last 5 years.
I remember buying my Hilite set in 2006 - my dear friend Peter (I didn't know him then) said the price, I told him ok - and we did the deal. In fact, I rarely bargain, only if I sincerely can't raise more $$$. The problem is me - I think sellers know their price well...

And that IS the problem - the sellers and buyers (at least here) changed.
As a seller - I don't remember the last time I sold something for the stated price, even if it was low. People (who I know have cash) come and still they make indecent proposals... I spent 9 months trying to sell the Hilite set, and on an agreed price, the buyer still came with 150euro less, as his final offer...

As a buyer - the sellers here put BIG prices, like 600euro for a Tama Swingstar set without cymbals, or 900euro for a Pearl Export. If You tell them what the reasonable price would be, they look at You with that "kill, kill, kill" look... That's why I totally stopped buying used gear from my country.

I believe in honest people like the ones here - they offer something, and if I have the cash, I buy it... That's how things should be...

The drum Forums (at least Rev's) evolved into "Look, I made the best bargain" places. You offer something, and suddenly people try to get that for half the offered price. OR, the sellers have an unreal price, just because they think You should pay extra. So, if a seller got his drums at $1500, he tries to sell them for $1400, and the buyer wants them at $700...

You can't really understand human nature. I'm sure things weren't this way in 2006. eBay.de had fantastic bargains - Hilites for 900euro. Now, the Hilites go for 1800 (or at least the seller think that what they should get for them). Signatures were 1400euro top, and now they ask even 3000euro for them...
The market has gone crazy - with no logic whatsoever...


That is why Kelly - I think the seller (if he's reasonable enough) will contact You and will offer them to You at that price. If he wants them at home, well - that's his decision...

I let my Hilites go under the agreed price just because I knew:
- the buyer wasn't lying about not having 150euro more
- there wouldn't be a buyer with that cash soon
- 150euro won't make me richer, no matter how much I needed the $$$ at that time.

Good things come to good men - if the seller thinks like that, both of you will be satisfied in the end...



I guess I forgot myself a bit here... :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:37 am 
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Goki wrote:
My personal view is that people have "mutated" in the last 5 years.

And that IS the problem - the sellers and buyers (at least here) changed.

You can't really understand human nature. I'm sure things weren't this way in 2006.


I doubt that human nature has changed, but the circumstances that reveal it surely have. In a booming economy everyone is more at ease. The apparent peace provided by a good economy is illusory, but mankind's essential nature remains the same.

Something or somebody else... "made me do it! "

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:23 am 
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Goki wrote:
...The market has gone crazy - with no logic whatsoever...

Dunno.

I think every market, wherever it is made is about buyers and sellers agreeing, even if at a different price than originally asked or offered.

When you deal amongst friends, people are more candid about what their motivations are, and a price agreement comes about, but no one is forced to pay more than they want; no one is forced to sell for less than they are willing to accept, and there should be no hard feelings the two can't meet on terms.

Dealing in public markets (ebay, etc.) can allow some parties to do things they would not do amongst friends, as they somehow feel that they have not sacrificed integrity when acting in bad faith if they do not know the face or voice at the other end, e.g. listing an item without reserve to save fees, and then pulling it if their desired price is not reached.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:20 pm 
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cliff wrote:
e.g. listing an item without reserve to save fees, and then pulling it if their desired price is not reached.[/color]


Totally agree! This has gotten so annoying to the point that if there is a no reserve item that I really want to bid on (usually at the very end), I will specifically request of the seller ahead of time that they not pull the auction, which you should not have to do!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:23 pm 
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phatsolid wrote:
cliff wrote:
e.g. listing an item without reserve to save fees, and then pulling it if their desired price is not reached.[/color]


Totally agree! This has gotten so annoying to the point that if there is a no reserve item that I really want to bid on (usually at the very end), I will specifically request of the seller ahead of time that they not pull the auction, which you should not have to do!


Something I want, I ask if there is a price at which they'll shut the auction. That way, you know. Which you also shouldn't have to do!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:55 pm 
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My point is that sellers tend to value their gear more, because of the bad economy - at least in Europe...
And buyers tend to pay less, also because of the bad economy...


eBay has lost it's charm for me, I'm afraid... I for one think that unless there's a technical error, an auction shouldn't be allowed to be canceled. It's not fair for the participants...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:02 pm 
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Goki wrote:
My point is that sellers tend to value their gear more, because of the bad economy - at least in Europe...
And buyers tend to pay less, also because of the bad economy...

I think this is true for sure.

No one wants to accept a loss on selling gear because other's buying power is diminished, and it becomes a different order of magnitude when it involves people's houses instead of their drum gear.

All still the same axiom: the more dollars there are chasing something, the higher the prices goes - and the inverse.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:10 pm 
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cliff wrote:
Goki wrote:
My point is that sellers tend to value their gear more, because of the bad economy - at least in Europe...
And buyers tend to pay less, also because of the bad economy...

I think this is true for sure.

No one wants to accept a loss on selling gear because other's buying power is diminished, and it becomes a different order of magnitude when it involves people's houses instead of their drum gear.

All still the same axiom: the more dollars there are chasing something, the higher the prices goes - and the inverse.



What I said, with the addenda that when stressed, who we are gets thrown into greater relief.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:11 pm 
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Goki wrote:

eBay has lost it's charm for me, I'm afraid... I for one think that unless there's a technical error, an auction shouldn't be allowed to be canceled. It's not fair for the participants...


Agreed. It's still a market place, but it has annoying vagaries.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:26 am 
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Kelly wrote:
Ha...been down that road Latz. With 3 different sources.


What kind of custom kits? I was thinking more of a stave or segment shelled kit or even a Vaughncraft (assuming they are still in business) one ply kit. Not your run of the mill Keller stuff...


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