On drums...

Who cares what they do with 10s?

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Gregory

If (like in SONOR's case) a hole is drilled and rubber is covering the metal part, the sound vibe will surely be a bit absorbed by the rubber. So, the more rubber You have, the more isolated the tom is, but also, the drum is more choked. At least that's my point of view.
Premier Signia shells should vibrate more and have more sustain, if there's not that much rubber on the inside, under the screws...

I (think) I understand the german concept of drum making - the idea is to get the best performance, monitored on an oscilloscope. And the oscilloscope picks up the vibration from the head (since it's connected to a microphone). So, in the end, what You're after is a clear sound, not a lasting sound.
It's the same with cars - if You pass the point of sound isolation, where You can't hear someone's horn when You're inside the car, the result is obvious...

Just my 2 cents regarding this...
All that wood-metal touching and vibrating gives something to the drum that we seem to forget nowadays - liveness!!!
Now we like a smooth action - we seem to forgot Bohnam's hihat in the "Since I've been Loving You"...

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Goki - short from Goran

Let the good drums roll!!!

Just about every drummer on the planet except you and Cliff.

Completely agree Goki.

No wonder I never liked Bonham. No rubber.

Nope, just kidding. Just don't enjoy Bonham's playing, or that band's music, but I don't think a shortage of rubber was the reason.

I started this thread because Sonor's current literature seems to lay claim to greater resonance and projection as a consequence of rubber isolation (as I understood it), and the demo would seem to negate that claim. But then, the claim is opaque in its language; perhaps the experiment was to isolate the shells in order to give greater freedom of resonance, but the result, as the literature says, is this:

Sonor is confident that APS and the Total Accoustic Resonance System are a successful, collective approach to getting the best acoustics from each drum shell.

Since "best acoustics" is not a defined characteristic, having confidence in the success of achieving it is bluster. Okay, so no one ever said that advertising has anything to do with truth or reality.

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Gregory

So what do all you guys do with them?

Kidding aside, actually, I prefer the 10s. They take up less shelf room than 13s do.

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Gregory

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Cliff

River City Trio

What if we did all have the same opinions?

This is the point I was trying to make. If they don't know enough to or how to tune their drums, they most likely don't know they sound "bad" , hence being blissfully ignorant. It goes "boom" doesn't it.....

Part of my opinions comes from dealing with drummers from a building stand point. When asked what they wanted from their drum they would say I want "Blah, blah, blah". Then when you ask them why the best answer was , " Well so & so has that and I like him" Most drummers I've met are oblivious of why a drum has certain characteristics and what affects those characteristics.. This is also why the "custom" game is not for everyone....

I'm also sure I don't know it all, but I do have a starting point...

Dave, I'm sure you are right about drummers as a pool. In your trade you would have been exposed to quite a few, I'd guess. I don't know many drummers, and the ones I do know, generally speaking, are those who are interested, and who do have at least a sketchy impression of the things we're talking about.

You did not include, "...or poor playing" in the red. I think it is probably the most important of the three.

I am fairly convinced that a good drummer can coax music out of almost anything, because it is not the individual tone or stroke, but rather the way those elements are strung together -phrasing, dynamics, rhythm - that makes music. A great kit is not necessary, in my opinion, to make great music, but a great kit may well sound lame when poorly played. That's why you don't ask Joe Blow to sit behind your kit, while you stand in the room, if you want to hear what it sounds like.

Which is why I am not so sure that most drummers, myself included, care all that much what sort of contraption we're playing. We'll find what works, even if we are struggling with cardboard boxes - as long as they're dry.

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Gregory

Agreed Gregory, but in my experience, even the great players are ignorant when it comes to equipment...

At least I qualify for one of those assessments.

If I were looking for a new kit today, I would be out trying anything I could get my hands on. The last thing I would be obsessing over would be shell material, structure, or concept. I would be looking for something that looked good and that excited my ear, probably in that order. Well, maybe not that order.

I would also look for something with an interesting history; pedigree, if you will. And something that didn't cost so much that I'd be worried to take it out. Couldn't weigh too much, either. Shell sizes count. But the sonic effects of glue, ply count, shell thickness... not so much, because in the end, I just want them to sound like drums, and look good, and be something I can warm up to.

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Gregory