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 Post subject: SONOR ON A BAD DAY
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:24 pm 
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I've been noticing that my 12" Designer's lugs were not sitting parallel to the shell, but didn't have the 20 torq wrench to work on them so tried not to pay attention. Finally bought the tool and had a good look at what was going on. The most reasonable explanations seems to be that the skilled laborer screwed down all the outer (toward the head) lug screws first, and then expected tightening the inner ones to even things up. It didn't, so much so that my Link era key did not fit between the rods and the rims. Have a look to see how far things were off:

Darn automatic cameras, anyway. Put the the foreground in focus but not the lugs. Oh well, the angles are still sorta clear:
Image


How the seating grommet of the inside screw is lifted:
Image


Not just the fault of the tilt, but the tunesafe and the H bar grommet surely were not designed at the same time, and the tilt makes it worse:
Image


Distortion of the outer grommet. You can see the seating inequality where the grommet pressed against the shell:
Image


The pressure on the inside of the outer grommet: The pressure of the lug made a mark on photo left side, but the right side is a deep pocket. These I spun around not quite 180º so that the lug would not find its old resting place.
Image


Put everything back together and now the drum key works without jamming, the drum sure looks better and, though I have no objective way of telling, it seems to sound better, too.

The thing I wonder: doesn't all this squishy rubber make for inexact tuning? I guess it will all equalize.

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 Post subject: Re: SONOR ON A BAD DAY
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:45 pm 
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another example of slapdash German workmanship.
Interestingly I may have to take a close look at my 8" tom as sometimes the drumkey doesn't fit easily on there...although I have noticed that the hoops are considerably bigger than the Lite drums...what's that all about???

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 Post subject: Re: SONOR ON A BAD DAY
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:25 pm 
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You've got an eye for detail Greg. How long did it take you to notice that? It looks very obvious from the photo. Did the shell get damaged?


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 Post subject: Re: SONOR ON A BAD DAY
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Don't recall when I first noticed, Greg. And frankly, until I disassembled the drum the other day I didn't realize the extent of the misalignment. I asked about the Torx wrench size about 7 months ago, but that was merely the time when I first decided to do something about it. It's been on my radar a long while. Didn't even ascertain which drum had the problem until quite recently; I mean, since I didn't have the tool there was no reason to ramp up my nerves.

Cliff and I were just talking about the fact that both of us were handling that drum a year ago without noticing it. It's the kind of thing you see when you aren't thinking about other things, I guess.

The shell was not damaged. The misalignment was absorbed by the squish in the rubber, not the wood. There isn't much torque applied to those screws, just enough to snug them down easily with a hand held screwdriver.

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 Post subject: Re: SONOR ON A BAD DAY
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Image

Curiously enough, overlap of the tunesafe and H bar rubber (on this 12x8) does not happen on my 8x8, or for that matter on the 13x9. Go figure. The H bar itself is marked 12", with no indicator for depth of shell. Depth is determined, I guess, by the point at which the horizontals of the H are riveted to the vertical. Ideally, and it is to be hoped that, this detail was worked out before the drums were built, but I'm not so sure. And it's unclear whether the lug spacing or the H bar spacing came first.

Then I looked at the fit of the rods through the rims. They are all pressed against the outer edge of their holes, suggesting that pressure is being applied through the rods to the lugs and hence to the rubbers. Sure enough, the lugs are, after a few days, beginning to show signs of going out of parallel again. Maybe I'll have to live with it, because if there is a misalignment between the lugs and the rim, there is not much I can do. This led me to look in more detail at my other toms.

Inspecting the 13x9, its rods are different in design. Because there is more space between the tunesafe and the rim, the rods on the 13 have about a half inch of unthreaded barrel after the step in (like a cinched waist) for rim clearance. The 12 rods are threaded all the way up to the step. Then I looked at the 14x14 floor, and it has the same rods as the 12, whereas the 16x16 has the same rods as the 13. Go figure, since the lugs on a 14x14 drum could have been placed almost anywhere. Isn't a square 14 as standard a drum as you can get? But sure enough, the space between the tunesafes and the rims of the 14 does not leave room for the aesthetic half inch of unthreaded barrel. So there are at least two different style and length rods on Sonor's shelves to account for... what? Are these guys making drums or are they congratulating themselves down at the local beer joint?

I admit, none of this beats Kelly's 15 SQ floor tom with the built in buzz, but it does raise questions about the heralded German engineering prowess at Sonor. And, perhaps, begins to answer certain questions about some of their choices in friends. :|

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 Post subject: Re: SONOR ON A BAD DAY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:22 am 
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Gregory wrote:
I admit, none of this beats Kelly's 15 SQ floor tom with the built in buzz, but it does raise questions about the heralded German engineering prowess at Sonor. And, perhaps, begins to answer certain questions about some of their choices in friends. :|


Now now! Shall we not let sleeping dogs lie? :o :shock: :lol: I could hear Streisand singing "Memories" far off in the distance as I read your closing remarks. 8-) But anyway, I could not tell from your excellent Moonscape shots if the veneer was pre or post Alpi in terms of vintage, but I admire your attention to detail to say the least. I am glad that the rubber took the brunt of the pressure and not the veneer. I am not so naive so as to assume that Sonor or any of it's more political defenders would ever admit to design flaws, but my guess is that with time and aging rubber, someone must have realized that the combination of the "H" mount and the tunesafe lugs were not a match made in Heaven or even the same decade.

I bought my Designers used from Tony Hillhouse. They were made during the transition to SQ2s as not only are they Fauxbinga, but they do not have the "H" mount and still retain the tunesafe lugs. Here is a clip of one of the only times I gigged that set.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i-3DdWwSc54

By the way Gregory, I will be playing in Park Falls, WI on Sunday. Is that anywhere in the neighborhood?

Roland


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 Post subject: Re: SONOR ON A BAD DAY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Yes, I am bitter. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pre-Alpi (photographed Pre-alignment). The snare is Alpi.

Image

Cool vid, Roland; nice relaxed playing. I can just make out that they're Designers, but why do you say they had no H bar? Got any photos?

Park Falls isn't to bad, 5 hours through beautiful scenery on the smallest winding roads around, but not something I want to do in one day. No chance playing further south?

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 Post subject: Re: SONOR ON A BAD DAY
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:46 pm 
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A '97 12x8 on ebay that has its lugs pushed together. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonor-Designer- ... 1c2dd0a8b1

Why not mine?

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 Post subject: Re: SONOR ON A BAD DAY
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:13 pm 
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Hey Roland,

I can not play the video.
:(

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 Post subject: Re: SONOR ON A BAD DAY
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Bloody heck, another 12x8 set up properly. Interesting kit, in birch and fauxbinga, for sale at Maxwell's in Chicago, with recordings.

http://www.maxwelldrums.com/sonor-12141 ... -7387.html

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