On drums...

furcifer wrote:
As an ex reptile importer I know all about importations of protected goods from both sides, both as a business person and a conservationist. I think a lot of this may be perceived in a misleading and skewed fashion from the way this article reads. Let me provide some perspective.

Gibson is not an unsuspecting musician travelling with a pawn shop Guitar to a gig in London. If they were raided it was likely (in my own personal opinion) stemming from repeated bullshitting of the USFW. The USFW does not typically run around raiding folks for the fun of it. What does happen frequently is that people try to get around USFW. USFW is largely concerned with enforcing not only US law but foreign law through the Lacey act. That means when an impoverished and desperate country which employs officials who are easily bribed with a couple of dollars and the last remnants of that country's most prized natural resources are sold illegally, the citizens of the US have made the decision that it is not going to allow it's citizens and companies to participate. To get around this set of laws everything under the sun has been tried. Do you really think either Gibson or the exporter is above trying to sell or buy unfarmed wood at a percentage of the cost? I would not accuse them as I don't know all the facts but this happens all the time. I think they make great guitars but I couldn't say if they were capable of doing one thing and saying another in the pursuit of profit or reputation.

What is shocking to me is that the forum is in an uproar over the fact that Sonor is selling drums with engineered laminate on their drums because real wood is too costly and that someone is trying to protect these same woods from illegal exploitation. We have all allowed ourselves to deplete our world of these wonderful woods. I am not sure why I would then turn around and denounce those who we have charged with the task of trying to stem the tide. Would we prefer to allow a few criminals to use the last remaining trees to complete extinction? I would prefer to adhere to the laws and pay premiums for legitimately harvested farmed woods and restore some of these species responsibly. Particularly when a giant rainforest tree supports about 2000 different species of animals on it from insects to primates, none of which can survive when you remove the trees in large swaths. It kind of sucks when someone comes and takes your stuff but at least we don't die from it.

In regards to the piano with ivory keys, this is not an issue regarding a wood species. This is regarding the slaughtering of elephants. That usually entails running down an adult elephant with a truck and a machine gun and cutting off their tusks with a chainsaw with the rest of the family of elephants watching. I am not an advocate for elephants by trade, although I do think they are cool, I highly suspect this is rather bothersome to these highly intelligent and sensitive creatures. If this does not bother you perhaps you don't really know many elephants? There do seem to be a lot of people worked up for elephant rights and I will just assume it is for good reason. Regardless the piano or any other object containing Ivory can be certified if the process is followed and allowed by law but in this case it was not as stated by the writer of the article. The fine and sentence imposed may seem harsh or could seem lenient to some, you can get more time and fines importing endangered species than you can for drug smuggling if you do the math. Also the Ivory is covered by Cities which is enforced by USFW during the import export process. These guys were not searching piano bars and knocking on musicians' doors downtown USA. This is an import and export issue, not a musician issue. I know it sucks when you want to do your "one little thing" such as moving your ivory what not from country to county but realize that right now criminals are exploiting the last of what is all of ours and selling it all over the world wherever they can get away with it.

In regards to Ebony I can go down to Rockler and buy ebony blocks so this is not illegal (just regulated and protected from abuse) and no one is going to raid your Signature kit. I would find out all I could before I imported or exported a kit but as of yet I have never heard of any international problems on the forum so I doubt this is an issue.

I am not an ecological vigilante, I used to import reptiles for a living and I would prefer real wood laminates on my drums if at all possible, but I also think we need to set some rules and enforce them so we don't mess up the only planet we have and loose forever the things we love.

Here is a cool basic article on US laws regarding Ivory if you are worried about your Ivory inlays on your vintage guitar, etc...
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/ch ... 04A10.html

Interesting deforestation photos from Madagascar
http://www.google.com/search?q=madagasc ... CAwQ_AUoAQ

Here are shocking elephant photos to gross you out if you are so inclined.
http://www.google.com/search?q=rotting+ ... CAsQ_AUoAQ

Ray Hicks wrote:
Yeah I've heard Gibson's "side of the story". I've heard the president of the company interviewed at length twice. What exactly is the DOJ's side of the story? They've raided Gibson before and confiscated instruments and materials--and not returned them nor made a credible charge, in my opinion. Someone here claimed something like "Gibson's been caught before", like being harassed once is a good reason to be harassed a second time. Not my interpretation of the Bill of Rights you got there with that one. There's been a lot of other preaching here about endangered species and stuff like that--which is simply obfuscation and conflation of issues. This is not about ivory poaching, or ivory period, although tangentially owners of pianos and other instruments which may have an ivory or other constituent somewhere could in fact be harassed or fined as well. But that's probably OK too, right?, because after all were talking about Gaia here.
Gibson guitars hasn't used illegally harvested wood or anything like that. That's another erroneous, fallacious smear that's been carelessly implied in this discussion. Gibson is very active in participating in programs that ensure woods are used in an ecologically sensible fashion. All of the rosewood and ebony seized and/or contested in this farce has been certified in this fashion by a third party group. What the DOJ is trying to stand on is Indian law. The Indian government is not harassing Gibson, the US DOJ is, just by using their own interpretation of Indian statutes to do so. That seems kind of ballsy and totalitarian to me, but then again I'm not a big fan of Eric Holder's DOJ to begin with. (I won't drag in issues like 'Fast and Furious', refusing to prosecute the New Black Panthers in the most blatant example of voter intimidation I've ever seen, the DOJs insistence on removing KSM from military justice and force a civilian trial in the home of the 9-11 victims' families, their refusal to uphold law such as DOMA that the US populace has voted on, etc, etc. I could carp about all of that and more, but I won't. Let's just stick to Gibson, OK?)
I don't think the claims of the DOJ hold much water at all. I think Gibson guitar is being strongarmed. The reasons? I can only use conjecture, but I think that the fact that Tenessee is a right to work state and Gibson is a non-union company might very well be a good place to start with that conjecture. After all, many other guitar companies including the fairly liberal folks at Martin use the same woods and they aren't being raided, are they? Gibson has been using the same sourced woods in question without incident for decades. Why the raids coming now with Holder and Co in charge?
The good Rev claimed that Gibson's president is "a jerk" and Gibson is a "crummy place to work". So? Anyone forcing you or anyone else to work there?
I think not. How about Boeing Corp trying to open a new plant in a right to work state and being similarly strongarmed by the government. Constitutional? Boeing isn't closing down any existing plants, just attempting to open a new one in an environment where they stand to turn a profit. And they're being screwed. Would any of you fellas like to have your rights trampled on in this manner? Care to be forced to lose money? Would you like to be run out of business?
I suspect if this was Sonor drum company, or some instrument company you all gave an honest crap about, and the DOJ in question was run by John Ashcroft under the authority of George W Bush this thread might look a heck of a lot different. In fact I'd bet on it. I almost can't believe the company that has made the L-5, the best mandolins money can buy, the Les Paul, the 335, the Firebird and on and on is being leaned on this way and most of you seem to think this is somehow acceptable or even a good thing. But I said almost. At 57, little surprises me anymore. Rock on, then.